When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
I remember reading up on non-Hondata reflashes to address the laggy DBW issue, either from dealerships or an overpriced aftermarket solution. Otherwise, the consensus was if you never close the throttle completely between shifts (say, withholding the last 5%) then the problem is circumvented. This will be a daily so an expense of lag at the gain of cruise control is a win for me, assuming I can find a K24a2 cheap enough. Did you go with an S2000 steering wheel to add CC controls?
I remember reading up on non-Hondata reflashes to address the laggy DBW issue, either from dealerships or an overpriced aftermarket solution. Otherwise, the consensus was if you never close the throttle completely between shifts (say, withholding the last 5%) then the problem is circumvented. This will be a daily so an expense of lag at the gain of cruise control is a win for me, assuming I can find a K24a2 cheap enough. Did you go with an S2000 steering wheel to add CC controls?
S2000 wheel and clock spring.
A CVT Insight wheel also has the correct parts they are just labeled funny as they are CVT controls.
Going to try that 5% thing. Some shifts are money but most are waiting for the stupid throttle plate to open.
Oh, I hooked the AC clutch relay to the HVAC controller bypassing the ECU. It works but not recommended. Tends to stall the engine while coming back down to idle while the AC compressor is running. ECU is not doing idle up in preparation for the added load. I believe the AC would also not release the compressor clutch on heavy throttle or high RPMs.
Last edited by Ryanthegreat1; 05-23-2017 at 06:07 AM.
The missing CAN bus is where we get stopped. There is no analog input for the AC On with the TSX ECU and I think that is true will all the K series ECUs.
You can get really hacky and do this.
[HVAC] -----analog on/off----> [AC Clutch]
Do not recommend, drives like garbage and stalls anytime you put the clutch in. Probably could damage the AC compressor as well as the ECU is not going to let the clutch go at high revs. Also the ECU shuts down the AC if the engine temps get too high.
I've read of K swapped Insights with AC before so there must be a solution, LHT (for $20k they BETTER) converted ones included. Never been familiar with Hondas past '97 until my '01 Insight so is it my understanding that a multiplex unit is a fancy, complicated fusebox?
I need another K series car to probe the CAN bus for AC on requests. The muliplexer from my TSX was smashed to bits when I got the car.
For now I have just used the HVAC panel to control the relay for the AC clutch. Same wire that the ECU uses to control the AC clutch. It works but have to manually turn off the AC when coming to a stop or when I want to run it up in the revs.
AC still cycles as normal when just cruising down the road.
The other thing that annoys me right now is the Civic knuckles on the Insight struts and lower control arms. I suspect this has messed with the front geometry for the worse. My theory is the scrub radius goes from slightly negative (ideal for FWD) to slightly positive. Makes braking or accelerating on uneven road surfaces a handful. On reasonably flat roads there is no torque steer but if there is a rut you better be on your A game.
I've got a lead on an '04 TSX that is being parted. What all do I need from this car? Engine long block with manifolds and sensors, trans (auto but I could sell for a manual in the future), drive by wire module, ECU, ignition with key for immobilizer, engine harness? Optimally I could drop the subframe to snag the axles and mounts too. Where is this elusive multiplex that has been causing you so many problems?
Engine harness, starter wire (on engine bay harness drivers side), engine complete, transmission, throttle pedal position sensor, throttle body power supply(passenger kick panel), oxygen sensors, oxygen sensor heater relay and throttle body main relay(clipped to the hvac box), rear oxygen sensor wiring(on the cabin harness under the passenger seat), immobilizer antennae, VIN number!!!! the 2004 ecu does not have the ability to report its VIN makes programming keys a royal pain in rear.
TSX fuel pump might work in the Insight tank. I have yet to confirm this. It is the same lock ring and gasket. I need to figure this one out as the Insight pump is ~12% down on pressure and this shows up on the fuel trims as +12% fuel trim.
Don't bother with the half shafts they are way too long and 28 spline outside. You will probably end up with 26 spline Civic/RSX hubs. The intermediate shaft from the automatic I don't think works in a manual. Plus the TSX shaft is way long.
And depending oh how you mount your engine the TSX header pokes off the block too far and gets into the steering rack.
The multiplexer is the relay/fuse box on the driver side fender.
I assume you want to keep AC so get the AC compressor and the lines that are plugged into the compressor. Keep the compressor sealed air tight if you plan to reuse it. The PAG oil absorbs moisture from the air and turns acidic.
Last edited by Ryanthegreat1; 09-11-2017 at 09:35 AM.
Awesome, excellent shopping list Ryanthegreat1. Now if I can just convince Brian at Hasport to brew me some mounts (I have almost no welding experience) and tackle wiring myself. My best estimate is take the HELMS manual of both cars and match wire for wire?
Thanks again Ryanthegreat1, I bought a hardcopy of both the Insight manual & electrical troubleshooting back when I purchased my '01 daily last year. If the '04 TSX does become my donor I'll buy those reference manuals for that car too. Need to hone my depinning skills in the meantime.
So I learned in the immobilizer programming that 05+ ECUs are rewriteable and play nicer when it comes to programming. The HDS tool honda uses can read the VIN from the 05+ stuff where the 04 does not have that option. And if you go to 07+ Hondata stuff works. I am running an 06 PCM on my 04, pinouts are the exact same.
Well...it took 11.5 hours to pull it out in the dark in the grass with no cherry picker and no power tools but I got most everything on the list. I don't even know where to begin that story...
The mounts are torn up, AC lines are bent a bit. What can I do as far as taking off superfluous accessories? Delete the PS pump and container? Need to figure out mounts (that aren't Innovative) and wiring. An auto ECU won't run a manual but I did get the key and ignition/immobilizer unit. This will be a "it takes a village" project.
I have 2 2004 MT ECUs that I know the VIN for. I would gladly part with one or both.
PS pump goes away, replace with the bracket and pulley from an EP3. Belt is a Gates K070663, puts you right dead in the middle of the tensioner range if you keep the AC compressor and alternator.
You really only need the two hard lines right off the AC compressor. Cut the ferrules off and crimp those hard lines onto the Insights rubber hoses. As in split the ferrules length wise, DON'T cut the hard line off! There are barbs and a stop under the hose you need to stay attached. Will need new ferrules and a crimping tool.
I put an RSX thermostat housing and water neck on mine. Not 100% certain it is required looking at your lower radiator hose there.
Oh and the heater hoses were Dayco 87712 and 88358 and they fit like magic.
I did end up putting some thermal wrap on the hose nearest to the header as insurance. The 1" heat sheath from DEI was a perfect fit. 010419 is the part number.
It should be noted that that is the K-tuned swap header but I cut 1.75" out of the the secondaries to tuck it up tight under the body and get the exhaust in the tunnel and not dragging on everything.
You can see the resonator front and center and the cat to the right of that. All the plastic under body stuff was removed for fabrication and then put back.
Thank you for continuing to drop info (and part numbers) for me to add to my list, it will make this swap possible. Where did you acquire all this one-off knowledge? I can search for hours and find limited info bc each swap is slightly different (and usually K20a versions). I'll start a build/question thread on InsightCentral soon and possibly here as well so this thread can go back to completed cars.
I see your engine is much closer to the firewall than any Innovative car has been, you make your own mounts?
I believe I got everything you listed minus the fuel pump, ran out of time and patience after 12 hours pulling the engine with limited resources.
Trial and error. Lots of time researching. Also not my first rodeo.
At first glace those relays looked like the plug for the throttle power supply.
You want to loan me that TSX fuse box? Could use it to reverse engineer the CAN bus signals that request AC on. Then you can use Arduino to to interface between the Insights HVAC and the TSX ECU.
This is my first "real" rodeo that involves more than just a few tweaks. CRX with OBD-0 to OBD-1 D15Z1 swap 12 years ago (that still runs) and a '97 Civic Hatch with complete HX D16Y5 drivetrain 5 years ago. Rather simple compared to this. I've been researching for the past year and now feel confident I will get there eventually, with help.
Correct, nothing was cut.
Sure thing. I won't need it back for awhile and you've been more than helpful. I'll create a build thread elsewhere in a few days.
And yes custom engine mounts. Innovate mounts put the engine far lower and forward than it needs to be. My setup only hangs the oil pan 1" lower than the Insight pan and no cutting the core support.
I reused the Insight mounts adapted to the TSX engine. They are maybe a bit soft for my liking. I like that the dash does not rattle sitting at a light, I don't like how much they can wrap up when you give it some loud pedal. Still working on a solution I like.
Lets see... B18C1 EG hatch that later got the D15Z1, Supra powered Toyota Pickup 4x4 (twice, built a second for a friend), Focus SVT powered Ford Cortina, K24 Insight, 6.4L Hemi Jeep Wrangler. Currently under the knife, F20C AE86 and Coyote powered 63 Ford Ranchero. All are still running daily drivers, less the AE86 that is being built to Formula D rules.
Would filling the voids of the mounts with a 50-60A polyurethane mix help the bind/twist when accelerating hard? It would probably add a bit of idle vibration in exchange.
I don't know the first thing about fabricating engine mounts so my learning curve will be steep.
That's an impressive stable. The Coyote and Hemi in particular cost more than my entire budget including the car for this swap. If I can make my car faster and preserve good mpg I consider it a win-win.
This place is dead compared to Insight central but the politics over there are unbearable. Also aside from the 2-3 resident geniuses over there the collective skill set is not high enough to repair a lawn mower much less a car.
I have noticed a particular response atmosphere over there but have had a generally favorable experience. I fall somewhere in the middle between the battery chemist graduate student and the run of the mill "how do I check my oil" person. All the more reason for you to contribute and raise the collective I.Q. lol. Especially with the K-swappers over there.
I'm assuming you kept the aluminum chassis mounts and fabricated steel engine/trans ones?
05-22-2017, 10:54 PM
Re: Offical k20/k24 swaped insights
