RiCE-DaDDy

I keep hearing all the good things bout CRVTEC and their impressive dyno no. but on the other hand i hear people say they are not reliable. Anyone got the real info here?? id appreciate it

Project_Integra

If your LS/Vtec is built correctly, it will be as reliable as any other engine swap. However, if you do a half-assed job at it, you will probably end up walking while your engine is being rebuilt. The more care, research and money you put into it, the more reliable it will be. Here's a post that kind of outlines what to expect....you should do a search on lsvtec in the archives and read up.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=80785&postid=664395#664395

WAFFLES

You know it's done right when you put nothing but new parts in it. I am spending about 5k with my setup. Of course, I'm not revving past 8k, but I am using new parts for the most part. Everything is balanced. I am going to a machine shop that I have used several times and my friend uses it very frequently. This shop is trusted.

There are plently of people on the board who have had these motors that are on the board. Hybridrex and Rainforest are a few. Just ask them, they've had thier set-up for a while and no problems. Once you completely rebuild any engine, whether ls/vtec or b18c, it could be reliable or not reliable. It just depends on how it's done.

Oh yeah, that's $5k with labor and shipping.

1.8EG-T

22,000 miles, 19 hours of hell cross country at 90 mph on a y1 trans.No real bad problems, leaky cam seal, But I do think that I jacked up some sort of sensor this week. If you do it right and treat it right, it will last you a long time. You probably are not going to get 300,000 miles out of it but you never know.

1.8EG-T

I hear you, I know that is really not a lot of miles.
Most people who do this have an ls block,lets compare here
300-400 for a ls shorty or complete
500 for the vtec head
100 for arp head studs
70 for the oil connection and fittings
350 for some eagle rods
450 for some endyn pistons
100 for the bore and hone
150 for a valve job
50 headgasket
100 oil pump
50 timing belt
50 water pump
90 for rod bearings
100 for main bearings
100 or so for the balancing
And it can go on depending if you do most of the work yourself or have someone else do it, this is a motor for guys who try to out do others, but if you are looking for reliablity, leave it STOCk. And do the simple bolt on's.

rainforest

here is my set-up
Block
brand new bearings,seals, and gaskets.
endyn/eagle rods
endyn 12:3 commprssion they are 12:1 but i tru milled the head and decked the block.
unorthadox racing pully
p30 oil and water pump
arp head studs
arp 2000 rod bolts

HEAD b17a
2001 type r cams
portflow ti retainers
type r inner valve springs
type r intake valves
spoon cam gears
ported throttle body
ported sligyly by myself

fuel
rc 270cc injectors
b&m
bosch in take fuel pump
feilds sfc/vtec

spark
ngk wires
ngk spark plugs
msd cap
msd 6a
msd blaster3

cooling
gsr radiator
spoon thermostat
spoon radiator cap.

tranny
y1 w/lsd
centerforce dual friction.

bolt on's
hks intake
jdm 4-1 w godspeed test pipe
itr intake manifold

Solo2Vtec

Its sounds like someone must beat you bad with an LS/Vtec setup. I have put over 10k miles on my setup. And I get on it hard everyday. Never have I had a problem. I have a 2000 LS Integra, I never took the block out of the car I just pulled the head. And pulled out the pistons and rods. I had the rods balanced and notched for GSR rod bearings and used usdm type r pistons, type r oil pump. My point it runs fine. I have beat 3 Type R's with this setup. the car runs 13.8 104mph

mannyman

iTrader: (2)

hey dragon, well you are kind of comparing apples with oranges, because yes their are honda engines that have 200k miles. But they are stock, not modiffied, and have defenitely not been raced since they were new. Now on the other hand you have crvtecs/lsvtecs that have high *** compression, all the go fast goodies and are probably raced every weekend. So you see unless you know someone that has 200K on a "built" honda motor that has been taken to redline almost everyday...then you would be able to compare. Just my 2 cents. '
manny

CRX_VTEC

Well put Manny... my old CRX had 235K miles on it and it was running on 3 cylinders for the last 5K miles. It is a stock motor with all stock parts. My ls/vtec which I'm building myself will run N/A. I think a LS/VTEC will only last for as long as the way it was built, driven,maintained. For $5K yeah..its alot to invest in a motor that probably wont last 100K or more. But how many motors do you know last long with 12:1 compression anyway? Not many if at all...
As for the GSR vs. LS/VTEC...the 5K I'm putting in my ls/vtec will be complete with all bolt ons. A GSR complete will cost roughly 3,500. That leaves 1,500 for bolt ons. I/H/E will take about 900-1,000 of that. That leaves 5-600 for other mods.
With such slim picking... theres no way a GSR can put out the same HP as the LS/VTEC I'm building. The most HP I've seen out of a GSR is 185-190. My LS/VTEC will come close to 200. (and thats without high lift cams)

Rain_man

DragonCTR69, although you make some valid points, some of your reasoning is uninformed. Such as to why Honda never put a VTEC head on the LS block. The LS block is the SAME as the the ITR block and GSR block except for some minor things such as the oil squiters and block girdle. Essentially they took the LS block and added some things that allowed it handle the extra rpms. So Honda did indeed put a VTEC head on the LS block.

Now the reason why people say that LS/VTEC has high end and low end is because the b18b has a slightly longer stroke giving a little extra low end power, but sacrifcing higher rpm reliability. To improve reliability with higher rpms, Honda simply shortened the stroke slightly. However, since CRVTEC and LSVTEC have the longer stroke, their high rpm reliablity is not as good as a the honda factory vtec engines.

However, you can solve the high rpm issues by adding the modifications to the block that honda added to the vtec engines, using stronger parts, and sleeving the block. This is what's meant by doing it correctly and if done so, should be every bit as reliable as a honda engine. If you half *** your vtec conversion, something will break if you try to take the engine up to normal vtec rpms.

WAFFLES

Dragon...

I believe it also comes down to personal preference. I personally like the fact that the ls/vtec makes good power from the start and adds more quickly. I have no problem revving to 7500-8000. That's enough for me. Yes the b18c motors make the same power just in a different spot of the power band. Torque is also important in auto-x. The ls/vtec has a better torque band. I like that. Any engine not built right or driven extremely hard won't last.

OK, that's my thoughts. Let's just say that it's personal preference.

Project_Integra

Good points Dragon...however I respectfully disgagree..... I dont understand your problem with the LS/CR/Vtec setups. First of all if you paid retail price for everything in the conversion, you might pay 8k. That's absolutely absurd. Trust me on this...I'm building one now, and I'm building it the right way, and it costs nowhere near that. It sounds like you have beef.....

Also, as far as people having problems with their engines, it sounds like alot of the people you know don't change their oil regularly, or take car of their car. I know PLENTY of people with stock Hondas with 70k miles w/ no problems. Usually its the people that start tinkering with the engine and modding it that run into problems. As you said, you feel that the construction of Honda's 4 banger is near perfect. With as many problems as you suggest, the engine is far from perfect.

The reliability of the LS/CR/Vtec setup is mainly dependent on the builder. If its done right the first time, you should have no problems....The concept itself is not that old, maybe thats why you don't know many people with the setup. I know plenty of people that DRAG and daily drive their frankensteins without any major problems. A couple people even have turbo setups. So its being tested as a daily driver by the people that are trying it out right now as we speak..err type ;-)

I don't think Honda was trying to build an autocross car. An autocross car would a helluva lot more torque stock, so we wouldn't have to try new and exciting things with our cars...Looked at your sig lately?
"Customize Customize that's the name of the game. Dare to be different" That's what we're doing!





[Modified by Project_Integra, 10:26 PM 11/13/2001]

xJ.SLOTHx

Its all about out doing the next guy...do you want to be the average guy with a stock b16? or do you want to strike fear in the hearts of others? thats a no brainer...hahahaha JK

Project_Integra

I still don't understand what makes you think the engine hasn't been tested...I guess when every article in SuperStreet & SCC talks about LSVtec then you won't have so many doubts about it.
Actually, I'm <U>building</U> my engine. There's nothing mechanically wrong with it....its just slow non-vtec B18a.
If you did a little research, you would know that forged pistons in an LSVtec will compensate for the lack of oil squirters in the block..
Everybody that is doing one is testing the reliablility of it right now. So we'll let you sit back and theorize about what should and should not be done with our engines, while we test and make ours better.

WAFFLES

I'll tell you this...


My swap will be in this month. If anything goes wrong I'll report it. I will tell you all how I have drove it, YOu will get every last detail. Then everyone can decide for themselves.

MIDNIGHT

word up!

WAFFLES

And MIDNIGHT will back me!

HX_Guy

[Modified by HX_Guy, 1:09 PM 11/14/2001]

WAFFLES

hahahaha

Project_Integra

I hear ya!

CRX_VTEC

That engine will probably cost about 4-5K to put together considering all the parts. He ran it with an open exhaust which will give him a few more HP on a dyno. I will spend a little over 5K for my ls/vtec, but at least it will be complete with all bolt ons as well. That engine makes really good power ... awsome considering its a b16. But put that same engine in the same car as ls/vtec... the ls/vtec will win every time!
You really cant say that a built GSR or type R will outlast a ls/vtec. Its not really a fair comparison. My ls/vtec will run roughly 12:1 compression or higher... I know theres no way it will last 150K miles. But to argue the same...if I spent 3 or 4 K and built a race motor out of a GSR with high compression..do you actually think that it will last 150K miles too??!! Once you built a high HP motor n/a or run a turbo with high boost.... they are considered "high maintainance" engines... they will never be as easy to maintain as stock. Cant compare apples and oranges...if you want a low maintainance engine stay stock.... but any modified engine will require "tuning". Yeah.. a type R motor stock with bolt ons would be great ... fairly low maintainance and good power. But look at those numbers...150-160's Hp..a far cry in comparison to a ls/vtec that will push over 200HP. To each his own..

B18C5-EH2

Here's a point I'd like to make:

I'm sure that LS/VTEC and CR-VTEC motors will only improve as experience and technology keep marching forward. I understand that you can get the hella torque of the non-VTEC blocks and still have great high-RPM power too - even more so than stock VTEC motors.

Here's the problem I have:

The RETARDS who have an LS motor, whether in their Integtra LS or Civic, CR-X, whatever, and THINK that you can just SLAP on the VTEC head and run some oil lines and SMOKE VTEC motors for MUCH cheaper.

This is what gives the LS/VTEC or CR-VTEC motors a bad name. So many people think that it's the CHEAP way to get into the VTEC world, and in doing so they do the **** so sorry that they never run right, and naturally people who see an LS/VTEC -- ANY LS/VTEC running shitty will spread the word -- it's human nature to do so.

Another thing to consider when talking about the costs, what about the TRANSMISSION? Do you think LS trannies are good for all-motor VTEC applications?

No. You should know they suck pretty bad - no offense - it's true though. A good old ITR swap includes a bad-*** geared tranny AND LSD as opposed to spending the bulk of your money on building the motor and then getting SADDLED with an LS tranny.

I've seen the impressive dyno charts, and I hope that my shop will end up building some MEAN CR-VTEC and LS/VTEC swaps, but for now I'm sticking with Honda race-proven reliability and power in my B18C5 swap. And I only paid $4,000 for the WHOLE wrecked ITR, so please don't think I'm a rich bitchboy with mommy's money.

Solo2Vtec

You just don't get it! You said $7000 for a ls/Vtec that puts out 170hp lol lol I paid $3000 for my setup but I already had the block. And it makes 180hp to the wheels with stock usdm Type R header and exhaust. And its in a OBD ][ 2000 LS !



Who told you it costs 7000 to build a ls/vtec with a 170hp!!

WAFFLES

CTR-

I understand what you're saying. But like I said earlier, I will post a thread every few thousand milees updating everyone on the reliability, how I drive it, etc. Anytime something goes wrong I will post something. This way everyone will no the reliability.

Okay!

Solo2Vtec

Good Idea I'll do the same I already have 12k on my setup with no problems but I'll let you all know if I do. I change my oil every 3k miles and drive the car hard every day. Please notice I used all stock honda parts!

My Setup

LS Block
Type R Pistons
Rods balanced and notched for GSR Bearing's
Type R Oil Pump
b16a head with Type R Valve Spring's
Ported type R manifold
JG 65m throttle Body
2000 Type R Ecu
Civic Type R Cams
Usdm Type R Header and b-pipe to Type R Muffler

With this setup car ran 13.9 102mph in my full interior 2000 LS



[Modified by LSVtec2000, 6:31 PM 11/15/2001]