Project S.W.A.G. Mid Rear Del Sol W/B18C1
07-07-2008, 09:46 PM
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Project S.W.A.G. Mid Engine Del Sol W/B18C1
I have been dreaming about doing a mid rear project ever since i saw the Top Fuel Del Sol featured in Superstreet Magazine but after much research I couldn’t figure out exactly how they developed the suspension and structure for their project. I then stumbled upon WhiteSol’s (Scott. P) amazing mid engine and now twin engine project. It is here where I saw his ingenious design using the front engine compartment of another civic and welding it into the rear.
To make a long story short I had a white del sol which was stolen, then bought back with a salvage title where I then put the b18c1 to have it hit by a cement truck a week later. Once again bought it back and that is where it sat waiting to be cut up and become a part of my new black del sol. I have been planning this project for a little over two years now and finally got the time and ***** to do it. i am on summer brake from college and kinda need to have it drivable by September because it is my only car aside from my street bike but that isn't exactly a way to commute with books and such. Once it is drivable it won't be the end of the project. i have a lot planned for this little car. After reading through WhiteSol’s project I then saw that RaceCity_USA (Dave) had also done a similar project on an Integra, who did an amazing job and paid attention to every detail. I can only wish to have mine end up as well as his did.
this is the d15 coming out of the dolor sol and my red neck cherry picker..
Braces to make sure the frame didn't shift while i was installing it.
Hole in the trunk of the Sol.
after i welded it in to find that the wheel base was about 3/4" too long. this was the only measurement that i only took once and it kicked me in the butt.
more structure to the shock towers and frame. RaceCity_USA helped me out with information about the suspension geometry. i didn't get as in depth as he did but i did design some anti squat into it by rotating the frame counterclockwise a few degrees if you are looking at the right side of the car with the front to your right. i plan on installing J's Racing roll center adjusters on all four corners with skunk 2 camber kits. wheel bearings and new control rods are going into the rear because the current ones are pretty beat up. i am looking around for type r hubs spindles and rotors to convert it to five lug and use the bigger brakes.
View from the back after the frame was installed. i am not finished yet. i cut the frame behind the fire wall and i don't like how it looks. i am going to shave it down a little and box in what is left.
finished with the frame. i am going to do all the wiring and piping, then pull the motor and finish with the sheet metal to close up all the holes.
i put the motor in though the top which wasn't an easy task. i think next time ill try to go through the bottom. it is a pretty tight squeeze.
was hoping to save the sliding rear window but after installing the motor i don't think there is a chance. later in the build i might fab something up to make it easily removable or manually slide down.
if you have any questions please ask. i have most of the build planned out but its always nice to have an outside mind stir up some thinking.
tomorrow i hope to complete the wiring in the car and start on the shift linkage. the b18 is from japan so i need to rewire it in order to change the plugs to the correct sides of the car. when it was in the front i just extended the existing wires in order to cross them to the opposite side. Not a very clean way so i am going to do it right this time. i have some really good builders to live up to lol
Modified by SICKCIS at 12:23 AM 7/8/2008
To make a long story short I had a white del sol which was stolen, then bought back with a salvage title where I then put the b18c1 to have it hit by a cement truck a week later. Once again bought it back and that is where it sat waiting to be cut up and become a part of my new black del sol. I have been planning this project for a little over two years now and finally got the time and ***** to do it. i am on summer brake from college and kinda need to have it drivable by September because it is my only car aside from my street bike but that isn't exactly a way to commute with books and such. Once it is drivable it won't be the end of the project. i have a lot planned for this little car. After reading through WhiteSol’s project I then saw that RaceCity_USA (Dave) had also done a similar project on an Integra, who did an amazing job and paid attention to every detail. I can only wish to have mine end up as well as his did.
this is the d15 coming out of the dolor sol and my red neck cherry picker..
Braces to make sure the frame didn't shift while i was installing it.
Hole in the trunk of the Sol.
after i welded it in to find that the wheel base was about 3/4" too long. this was the only measurement that i only took once and it kicked me in the butt.
more structure to the shock towers and frame. RaceCity_USA helped me out with information about the suspension geometry. i didn't get as in depth as he did but i did design some anti squat into it by rotating the frame counterclockwise a few degrees if you are looking at the right side of the car with the front to your right. i plan on installing J's Racing roll center adjusters on all four corners with skunk 2 camber kits. wheel bearings and new control rods are going into the rear because the current ones are pretty beat up. i am looking around for type r hubs spindles and rotors to convert it to five lug and use the bigger brakes.
View from the back after the frame was installed. i am not finished yet. i cut the frame behind the fire wall and i don't like how it looks. i am going to shave it down a little and box in what is left.
finished with the frame. i am going to do all the wiring and piping, then pull the motor and finish with the sheet metal to close up all the holes.
i put the motor in though the top which wasn't an easy task. i think next time ill try to go through the bottom. it is a pretty tight squeeze.
was hoping to save the sliding rear window but after installing the motor i don't think there is a chance. later in the build i might fab something up to make it easily removable or manually slide down.
if you have any questions please ask. i have most of the build planned out but its always nice to have an outside mind stir up some thinking.
tomorrow i hope to complete the wiring in the car and start on the shift linkage. the b18 is from japan so i need to rewire it in order to change the plugs to the correct sides of the car. when it was in the front i just extended the existing wires in order to cross them to the opposite side. Not a very clean way so i am going to do it right this time. i have some really good builders to live up to lol
Modified by SICKCIS at 12:23 AM 7/8/2008
07-08-2008, 07:55 PM
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Re: Project S.W.A.G. Mid Engine Del Sol W/B18C1 (SICKCIS)
i finished the shift linkage today. it is about five and a half feet long from shifter to tranny. it travels through the right side of the exhaust channel under the motor but after test fitting the header it hits the linkage by about an inch. i am going to have to channel the two pipes into one a little sooner and run them closer to the engine side. i will be adding a turbo so the down pipe shouldn't have a problem at all.
the brace is hard mounted at the front of the engine. i don't think this will be a problem i might just get some vibration through the shift ****.
this is where it mounts into the tranny. i had to make part of that swivel joint solid to allow for the twisting action of the shifter.
these pictures are pretty bad. i took these at dusk sorry.
the brace is hard mounted at the front of the engine. i don't think this will be a problem i might just get some vibration through the shift ****.
this is where it mounts into the tranny. i had to make part of that swivel joint solid to allow for the twisting action of the shifter.
these pictures are pretty bad. i took these at dusk sorry.
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07-15-2008, 10:32 PM
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Re: (tambara)
well there hasn't been a day where i haven't worked on the car. i didn't realize how bad the pictures were until i went to upload them. sorry. i finished the wiring last night and actually started it 
. i used the wiring harness from the donor del sol so i could keep as close to the stock wire colors as possible and it worked out pretty good. the donor del sol had the map sensor on the fire wall and the GSR motor has a map sensor on the intake manifold so i had to add a few wires to the harness. i don't have any good pictures of the complete harness but it turned out pretty nice. i am temporarily using the stock gas tank and mounted it under the hood. i am not happy with this and it will be changing. i will be buying a fuel cell and if i can't find one that fits nicely under the hood allowing for some good storage space i might end up putting it behind the motor. i would like to keep it under the hood but not at the expense of space. The exhaust is also temporary. right now there is a muffler bolted directly to the header. no cat or anything. i am going to take it to a muffler shop once it is running. don't have a tube bender and i know a guy who i know will do a really good job. in the rear i am changing out the wheel bearings, all ball joints and tie rods to make everything new again. i messed up one of the hubs while doing, this not realizing how much a new one would cost. a little over a hundred bucks. costly mistake.. i have all new energy suspension bushings coming in the mail for the a-arms and shock mounts front and rear, wilwood big brake kit for the front, remote master cylinders for the e brake. I am hoping the big brake kit will balance out the brake distribution but if that doesn’t work I will be using an adjustable proportioning valve.
the spaghetti mess trying to get the wires on the motor to the correct side of the car. i was worried that i might need to extend the shielded wires but it turned out after i got them to the correct side i had too much.
gas tank in the front of the car. temporary and dirty. right now i am just assembling everything and once it is complete i am going to take everything back out of the car, clean it up and put a fresch coat of paint on it.
this is the rear passanger side shock tower. fuel filter is mounted up and i made new fueltubing that mounts up to the stock tubing that travels under the car to the front.
this is a picture of the second attempt at the shift linkage. after welding one of the pivot joints i noticed that it bound pretty bad going into fifth gear so i extended it a little further and put a U so it would travel back and use the full pivot joint. once again i wasn't happy with it because it hung a little low and still hit the header so now i am on the third attempt. we will see how it turns out
you can also see my really short exhaust.
new ball joint and wheel bering going in.
i didn't mention it before but i found a point on the sub frame where i mounted the tie rod that gave me no bump steer. i was trying to find it using the suspension geometry and instant centers but after that failed i resorted to the s.w.a.g. method and found it. for those of you who don't know (scientific wild a$$ guess).
i think thats it. so far. i picked up some aluminum tubing and will be working on the cooling system next.
. i used the wiring harness from the donor del sol so i could keep as close to the stock wire colors as possible and it worked out pretty good. the donor del sol had the map sensor on the fire wall and the GSR motor has a map sensor on the intake manifold so i had to add a few wires to the harness. i don't have any good pictures of the complete harness but it turned out pretty nice. i am temporarily using the stock gas tank and mounted it under the hood. i am not happy with this and it will be changing. i will be buying a fuel cell and if i can't find one that fits nicely under the hood allowing for some good storage space i might end up putting it behind the motor. i would like to keep it under the hood but not at the expense of space. The exhaust is also temporary. right now there is a muffler bolted directly to the header. no cat or anything. i am going to take it to a muffler shop once it is running. don't have a tube bender and i know a guy who i know will do a really good job. in the rear i am changing out the wheel bearings, all ball joints and tie rods to make everything new again. i messed up one of the hubs while doing, this not realizing how much a new one would cost. a little over a hundred bucks. costly mistake.. i have all new energy suspension bushings coming in the mail for the a-arms and shock mounts front and rear, wilwood big brake kit for the front, remote master cylinders for the e brake. I am hoping the big brake kit will balance out the brake distribution but if that doesn’t work I will be using an adjustable proportioning valve. the spaghetti mess trying to get the wires on the motor to the correct side of the car. i was worried that i might need to extend the shielded wires but it turned out after i got them to the correct side i had too much.
gas tank in the front of the car. temporary and dirty. right now i am just assembling everything and once it is complete i am going to take everything back out of the car, clean it up and put a fresch coat of paint on it.
this is the rear passanger side shock tower. fuel filter is mounted up and i made new fueltubing that mounts up to the stock tubing that travels under the car to the front.
this is a picture of the second attempt at the shift linkage. after welding one of the pivot joints i noticed that it bound pretty bad going into fifth gear so i extended it a little further and put a U so it would travel back and use the full pivot joint. once again i wasn't happy with it because it hung a little low and still hit the header so now i am on the third attempt. we will see how it turns out
you can also see my really short exhaust. new ball joint and wheel bering going in.
i didn't mention it before but i found a point on the sub frame where i mounted the tie rod that gave me no bump steer. i was trying to find it using the suspension geometry and instant centers but after that failed i resorted to the s.w.a.g. method and found it. for those of you who don't know (scientific wild a$$ guess).
i think thats it. so far. i picked up some aluminum tubing and will be working on the cooling system next.
07-21-2008, 10:42 PM
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Re: (SOHCD16y8)
sorry, i don't have any new pictures to upload but i figured i would let everyone know that i actually drove the car yesterday and got exhaust and all the check engine lights off today. the exhaust didn't turn out how i wanted it. thats what happen when you don't do it your self.. not to mention it costed close to 400 bucks... i got raped.. it will get me by for now but it will be changing. i eyeballed the alignment and i got it pretty close but i am going to go get it aligned tomorrow. i have some pics but i am going to take a lot more tomorrow.. ill hopefully get them posted tomorrow night..
07-22-2008, 11:22 PM
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Re: (welfarepc)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 88ED8 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How does it drive? I suppose you'll have a lot more info after you get an alignment ect... Videos would be nice too </TD></TR></TABLE>
i got an alignment today and from the little driving i have done i think it handles way better than it did before.. i have no clue what spring rates i am running. i think the rear might be a hair softer than the front with no sway bars so i do have some body role but it seams to hug the road.. coming in to the project i thought it would push really bad but that isn't the case. i haven't pushed it hard enough to find out if the front or rear will give first but i think the rear might give a little sooner than the front. i need to get it on a set of scales to see what kind of weight distribution it has so i can order some suspension. i am thinking kyb agx's and probably some ground control or eiback coil overs.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by welfarepc »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why does it stop here??? damn it keep posting!!! i love this mid enging ****. cant wait to try it</TD></TR></TABLE>
i am no where near from being done.. this is just the beginning.. i was a little shocked that i could have it running in three weeks but there is still a lot planned. it will be three inches wider on each side and i am going to do a custom wide body, new interior and turbo.. not necessarily in that order but there is still a lot to come. i am actually driving the car to my dads house in vegas in the next couple days and we are going to build a fire wall for it.. wish me luck that i get there
so far i have only driven it about a hundred miles.ill have pics tomorrow and ill see about a video. i don't have a video camera other than on my phone so you might get a really bad res video..
07-23-2008, 11:14 AM
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Re: (f@sth@tch89)
here are the rest of the pics that i have..
camber kit
wiring on the passanger side
wiring on driver side and a little sheet metal work
coolant lines under the hood
start of a make shift fire wall to get me to vegas and you can see the coolant lines going to the motor.
sheet metal work on the passanger side
the exhaust that i don't like.. i am going to move the can further back to hug the rear end of the trunk and be parallel to the wall.
coolant lines throttle cable and shift linkage going down the center tunnle.. the zip ties aren't holding anything. i was using them for support whille i was mounting brackets.. just haven't cut them out yet. the throttle cable is from an mr2. it is the perfect length and pretty much bolted on with a few small modifications.
sitting on the ground and rolling again!!!
Modified by SICKCIS at 12:30 PM 7/23/2008
Modified by SICKCIS at 12:35 PM 7/23/2008
camber kit
wiring on the passanger side
wiring on driver side and a little sheet metal work
coolant lines under the hood
start of a make shift fire wall to get me to vegas and you can see the coolant lines going to the motor.
sheet metal work on the passanger side
the exhaust that i don't like.. i am going to move the can further back to hug the rear end of the trunk and be parallel to the wall.
coolant lines throttle cable and shift linkage going down the center tunnle.. the zip ties aren't holding anything. i was using them for support whille i was mounting brackets.. just haven't cut them out yet. the throttle cable is from an mr2. it is the perfect length and pretty much bolted on with a few small modifications.
sitting on the ground and rolling again!!!
Modified by SICKCIS at 12:30 PM 7/23/2008
Modified by SICKCIS at 12:35 PM 7/23/2008
07-23-2008, 08:46 PM
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Re: (welfarepc)
Kudos! Looks good man! Would be a good time to find yourself an LSD. Watch that rear end, it'll want to come around on ya if you're not careful! 
Would be a good time to find yourself an LSD. Watch that rear end, it'll want to come around on ya if you're not careful!
07-24-2008, 09:36 AM
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Re: (projectTeG)
heh still, that looks great from the outside!
i think u will be fine on ur trip, but i would say bring some extra coolant just in case [/QUOTE]
thanks!!.. i am working on making it look good on the inside lol... i think i am going to need a bigger radiator.. going up some of the big hills it started to heat up a little.. nothing horrible but it was at night and and i think it would have been way worse in 110 degree weather.
well i made it to vegas.. i had a couple glitches on the way. i think i have a problem with the shielded wires. every once in a while it will throw a check engine light and the engine will cut out do to the crank positioning sensor. i have the alt wire running next to them so i think it is interfering with the signal. i was going to work on the fire wall today but now i am going to get to the end of his problem. i think i am going to end up running all new shielded wire for the knock and crank positioning sensor. it was pretty hot in the cab. i put in a make shift fire wall (a piece of sheet metal that spread the width of the car and tacked it in) ill take a pic of it. there is a lot of back flow of hot air into the cab. i am going to have to do a good job at sealing the front cabin from the rear to keep all the fumes out.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RallySol »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Kudos! Looks good man! Would be a good time to find yourself an LSD. Watch that rear end, it'll want to come around on ya if you're not careful! </TD></TR></TABLE>
seriously!! i think i am going to wait until i turbo it where i will end up buying an LS tranny for the longer gears and then put in an LSD. [QUOTE=welfarepc]more pics are good.
i think u will be fine on ur trip, but i would say bring some extra coolant just in case [/QUOTE]
thanks!!.. i am working on making it look good on the inside lol... i think i am going to need a bigger radiator.. going up some of the big hills it started to heat up a little.. nothing horrible but it was at night and and i think it would have been way worse in 110 degree weather.
well i made it to vegas.. i had a couple glitches on the way. i think i have a problem with the shielded wires. every once in a while it will throw a check engine light and the engine will cut out do to the crank positioning sensor. i have the alt wire running next to them so i think it is interfering with the signal. i was going to work on the fire wall today but now i am going to get to the end of his problem. i think i am going to end up running all new shielded wire for the knock and crank positioning sensor. it was pretty hot in the cab. i put in a make shift fire wall (a piece of sheet metal that spread the width of the car and tacked it in) ill take a pic of it. there is a lot of back flow of hot air into the cab. i am going to have to do a good job at sealing the front cabin from the rear to keep all the fumes out.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RallySol »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Kudos! Looks good man! Would be a good time to find yourself an LSD. Watch that rear end, it'll want to come around on ya if you're not careful! </TD></TR></TABLE>
seriously!! i think i am going to wait until i turbo it where i will end up buying an LS tranny for the longer gears and then put in an LSD. [QUOTE=welfarepc]more pics are good.
07-24-2008, 02:52 PM
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Re: (SICKCIS)
I've been following your build and done research on the Gemini build as well, I have a few questions though. Why did you completely rebuild the wire harness?
I have an MR2 that I'm parting out and the way toyota delt with there ECU was just putting it into a small trunk it made behind the engine bay. I guess I'm asking why rebuild the wire harness when you could of moved the ecu to a water tight location right behind the motor...technically its "stock" location all the wire lengths would of been right. you just would of had to extend less critical wires rather then run shielded wires to the front of the car. Longer wires would allow for a large array of issues to possible come up.
I'm definitly impressed with the build so far. I've started my own research and part list to do this to one of my Sols (I have 2 parts and 2 driving Sols) Any tips you can give me would be great.
I have an MR2 that I'm parting out and the way toyota delt with there ECU was just putting it into a small trunk it made behind the engine bay. I guess I'm asking why rebuild the wire harness when you could of moved the ecu to a water tight location right behind the motor...technically its "stock" location all the wire lengths would of been right. you just would of had to extend less critical wires rather then run shielded wires to the front of the car. Longer wires would allow for a large array of issues to possible come up.
I'm definitly impressed with the build so far. I've started my own research and part list to do this to one of my Sols (I have 2 parts and 2 driving Sols) Any tips you can give me would be great.
07-24-2008, 03:19 PM
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Re: (SICKCIS)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SICKCIS »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i think i am going to need a bigger radiator..</TD></TR></TABLE>
I think you need a electric water pump, that's a long way for the coolant to travel...
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SICKCIS »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i will end up buying an LS tranny for the longer gears</TD></TR></TABLE>
Don't do that
I'd go with a b16 or a ITR trans (ITR already has a LSD) the longest gears I would put in there would be GSR....
I think you need a electric water pump, that's a long way for the coolant to travel...
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SICKCIS »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i will end up buying an LS tranny for the longer gears</TD></TR></TABLE>
Don't do that
I'd go with a b16 or a ITR trans (ITR already has a LSD) the longest gears I would put in there would be GSR....