Adam.

UPDATED: 7/6/2004 (check Page 2 for update)

::I'll add more to this after I get the dyno runs in a couple of weeks::

Another Guy's Dyno Comparison, JDMShit, vs. Mugen vs. No-Name

Well guys, as some of you know, my car was stolen about 1 1/2 month's ago. Well, last night i finally got the last part in (well, still waiting on that fake j's intake).

I've been running around on a stock JDM P13 ecu (borrowed while friend is out of town) for the last week and having some pretty serious issues with it. I would go into limp mode after driving the car for 5 minutes. The only thing i could find to correct this problem was to restart the car while stopped and make a pull from there. It almost always made a decent clean run.

Feeling the Power:
Well, i tried to closely "feel" the power throughout the the rev range with the P13 (note* I was running at 48psi w/ an AN-R header and 2.5" exhaust, no intake) and by no means did it feel smooth at all.

<U>JDM P13</U>

RPM ----- Feeling
2k-3k....... Nice and "torquey"
3k-4k....... Flattened out felt like I'm just waiting around for something
4k-5200... Felt a little more spirited, but still waiting around for that something
5200-6000 That something get's there (READ: VTEC) and I get a great pull feeling
6000-6800 Flattening out again (Damnit!). Just feels like I'm revving the motor
6800-7500 Another jump in power, but it fades fast at around 7200

These were all after a pretty decent amount of street tuning based on spark plugs.

Last night I got my P28 back from JDMShit.com with their heralded H22a program.
Just to give you a couple of specifics:

VTEC X-over: 4800
Fuel Maps: Similar to the H22a Type-s Maps
Rev Limit: 8500 (not really that important for me... yet)
*Newman feel free to chime in here.

Chipping cost $125 (including shipped back to you 3-5 day ground)

I'll tell you guys this, I went into it expecting no if any gains. I've seen people barely gain 2-3whp with a rechipped ecu and I knew that anything i think i felt on my butt dyno was BS. Well, I can honestly say, I was WRONG. This thing was like night and day midrange and had a little more juice throughout the rest of the RPM range.

<u>JDMShit.com P28</u>

RPM -------- Feeling
2k-3k......... Still, nice and "torquey"
3k-4k......... Now a nice decent pulling.
4k-4800..... Damn, the revs started picking up fast
4800-6000. (READ: VTEC) and I get a great pulling feeling and with no waiting around for VTEC!
6000-6600. Flattens out slightly, and I do mean slightly
6600-7500. Pulls increasingly harder all the way to redline.

Guys, this thing is the real deal. I'm going to the track again friday (my best with the p13 was a 14.8...shut up) to see what i can muster. As far as I can tell the extra midrange is going to sweeten up my launches (2.3s so far). The only fall back is that everytime i shift to 2nd i get wheel spin now, no matter how i try to feather the clutch .

We also did a quick spark plug tune (turbogixxer ) and ended up bumping the fuel pressure another couple of points to 50psi at WOT.

To take you back to last night, (Disclaimer: Street Racing is bad, illegal, and immoral and these pulls where done by professional on a closed circuit track ) I've been having a little trouble with a friend and his b16/crx. I swear to god this car for whatever reason just has my number. Throughout the tuning process with the P13, he would nose me on 3rd-4th gear rolling runs. To give you a break down of his CRX Mods:

-88/89 CRX Si (weighed at 2430 w/ driver)
-JDM First Gen B16a
-DC Sports header
-Generic Short RAM Intake
-2.25" exhaust
-FPR
-Four years to mess around with his setup

He's run a best of 14.9 and his best trap was 98mph. I know, your thinking yea right, but he's been my friend for over a decade so i believe him (he lost the time slips). My best run of 14.8 and best trap of 92.2mph (2850lbs. w/ driver).

We get going at it again in 3rd (this time i'm starting in with a decent increase in power from the lowered crossover to the higher cam profile) and go after three honks. Well this time i jump on him like i always have, but a little bit more this time, usually a nose, this time a fender. I shift into 4th and he falls back another foot or two to having is nose at my door and we stay like this until he hits his JDM speed limiter. We ran twice before this, but they weren't accurate at all. Basically i gained 3/4 of a car length from 3rd-4th.

We ran from a stop 5 times. The first two times he said he misshifted 2nd and i pulled like 4 cars on him and shut down at the top of second. The third time was closer (i guess he didn't miss 2nd) but i jumped an immediate half car from the start and was probably at a full car by his fuel cutoff. The fourth run I spun like a crazy man and we ended up side by side in through second. I pulled a fender as we shifted into fourth, but he started to inch up on me by the time we got to his cutoff. The last time I'm going to say is a wash b/c he said his clutch started slipping, I had by far my best launch and pulled 1+ car length on him easily by shut down.

I'll have some real track number differences and in a couple of weeks actual dyno numbers, but until then.

*Note- Fuel Pressure was increased from 46psi @ WOT to 50psi @ WOT.

<U>Track Results: Friday May 28th, 2004</U>

............... 1............. 2............. 3............. 4............. 5............. 6
R/T.......... 1.146....... 1.196....... 1.528....... 0.993....... 0.747....... 1.162
60'........... 2.257....... 2.234....... 2.219....... 2.281....... 2.241....... 2.245
330.......... 6.268....... 6.269....... 6.244....... 6.250....... 6.234....... 6.235
1/8.......... 9.565....... 9.575....... 9.531....... 9.492....... 9.520....... 9.490
1/8 MPH... 74.950..... 74.770..... 75.210..... 76.230..... 75.370..... 76.750
1000........ 12.388..... 12.401..... 12.349..... 12.343..... 12.339..... 12.291
1/4.......... 14.789..... 14.804..... 14.745..... 14.875..... 14.738..... 14.661
1/4 MPH... 92.760..... 92.610..... 93.060..... 88.660..... 93.030..... 93.710
LANE........ RIGHT...... RIGHT...... RIGHT...... RIGHT...... RIGHT...... LEFT

Well, there are my times from last night (Friday). First thing you'll notice is that all of my 60' foots are down to 2.2 and thus my best quarter mile has dropped by two tenths. You could say the reason my times went down was b/c i drove my car better, but i think the increase midrange power gave me something extra after my chirp off the line and before my usual 5200 VTEC crossover. By lower the point and better fuel maps and timing the better midrange got me there faster and increased my average 60 foots by as much as a tenth.

The general rule is that when your ET's go down in time, so do your mph. Well, as you can see I didn't really have that trend last night. It would seem that the increased power from the new ECU netted me nearly 2mph better and that's on my lowest ET! I'm sure if I would've spun the tires off the line (or however you get a higher mph) I could've gotten somewhere around 94-95. If you notice my 4th run was 14.80 @88mph. I was hauling *** that run and missed 4th gear. Could've been something magical.

Anyways guys, for all you guys that remain skeptical (from experience, I know) here are some hard facts that prove the case.

I will be giving a further breakdown of each run in the thread that I guess has become sort of my quarter mile journal.

Conclusion:

This ECU definitely gives great midrange power and adds a little bit up top as well. For $125.00 and the price of a p28 you will not get a better performance part for your h22a motor.



Modified by DarkKnight1 at 1:47 PM 6/28/2005

Turbogixxer

Great write up

The fuel still needs to be messed with. Midnight tuning is not fun.

eg92b16a2

where are u getting the whale ***** from every where is on backorder...

Adam.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by eg92b16a2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">where are u getting the whale ***** from every where is on backorder...</TD></TR></TABLE>

I know. I meant I'm still waiting to get one.

http://www.topspeedauto.com


Modified by DarkKnight[DMD] at 4:55 PM 6/8/2004

aznboysrfr

what? ... you said the redline is 8500? ... but in the rpm-feeling, you said it is 7500

Adam.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by aznboysrfr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what? ... you said the redline is 8500? ... but in the rpm-feeling, you said it is 7500</TD></TR></TABLE>

Read closer. My rev limit on the ecu before fuel cut off is 8500. The engine still has the stock valvetrain. The prelude's quoted redline is 7400rpm. 8500rpm on stock valvetrain = no soup for you.

C M S

Great right-up. I too just received my H program and talk about all around smoother. I did notice when I power through 1st , somewhere between 5k-@7k there was a slight( I mean very slight) hesitation. Now this was yesterday when I got it. Today I went running around and didnt notice it, so it was prob. user error . With the P13 I was popping fuel all the time, its ow gone. I am hoping to get some track time in about 2 weeks. Lets keep this alive, this is the **** people want to see!

tanabe-lude

My computer is an obd 2, and my ride is a 5th gen sport-shift, will this chip still work on my ride or do i have to get an obd I. thanks noob here

Turbogixxer

P28 = OBD1
OBD2 ecu are hard to chip if you can chip them.
he has a convertion harness on his car to let him run OBD1.

satan_srv

Conclusion: No dynos

*** dynos lie, most racing chips are no good.

Katman

nice ***-dyno results..

now, how 'bout some real dyno comparisons & sheets?

It would be nice if you could dyno compare Newman's proggy vs. the stock JDM P13 vs. a Spoon P13 proggy..

Turbogixxer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by satan_srv &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Conclusion: No dynos

*** dynos lie, most racing chips are no good.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, We are going to the track tomorrow and he says that he is going to dyno it so we will all see.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Katman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It would be nice if you could dyno compare Newman's proggy vs. the stock JDM P13 vs. a Spoon P13 proggy.. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I have a stock JDM P13 and jdm ****. I am willing to compare them if I can get a Spoon P13.

Adam.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by satan_srv &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Conclusion: No dynos

*** dynos lie, most racing chips are no good.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Maybe, but i was expecting that kind of response. That's why i ended the post by saying i planned on taking it to the dyno. The original plan was to run both the JDM P13 that I had before and the chipped P28.<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Katman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">nice ***-dyno results..

now, how 'bout some real dyno comparisons & sheets?

It would be nice if you could dyno compare Newman's proggy vs. the stock JDM P13 vs. a Spoon P13 proggy.. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Send me a Spoon P13 and I'd be happy too.

satan_srv

Yeah I know you're excited and wanted to post it's just that it's tough to read a review with no objective results. That's all. Once you go to the dyno and the track and add it..that's great

Turbogixxer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by satan_srv &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah I know you're excited and wanted to post it's just that it's tough to read a review with no objective results. That's all. Once you go to the dyno and the track and add it..that's great</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, it is a relatively new chip so it is "untest" so I guess we will see. If it turns out to be bad maps or what not, it will be a learning experience.

Newman

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Katman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It would be nice if you could dyno compare Newman's proggy vs. the stock JDM P13 vs. a Spoon P13 proggy.. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I actually have all 3 laying around at the shop right now, along with a US P13 and a XS Engineering program that works well in it, and our Hondata S200 w/modified Type S program (similar to the P28 program).... even have a local guy willing (and wanting me to stop by) to dyno the car with those ECUs in there to see the back-to-back differences. Just haven't had much time to do what I want to do lately, but I think I'll try and schedule something sometime in early June.

At the last Hybrid Track Day a month ago, I was using the P28 w/JDMsh!t proggy in the car and it felt good around the course.


Nice write up

Katman

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Newman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

even have a local guy willing (and wanting me to stop by) to dyno the car with those ECUs in there to see the back-to-back differences. Just haven't had much time to do what I want to do lately, but I think I'll try and schedule something sometime in early June.
</TD></TR></TABLE>


get on IT newwwwwwwwwwwman!! curious to see the results

will you be testing on a totally stock H22 ?

Adam.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Newman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I actually have all 3 laying around at the shop right now, along with a US P13 and a XS Engineering program that works well in it, and our Hondata S200 w/modified Type S program (similar to the P28 program).... even have a local guy willing (and wanting me to stop by) to dyno the car with those ECUs in there to see the back-to-back differences. Just haven't had much time to do what I want to do lately, but I think I'll try and schedule something sometime in early June.

At the last Hybrid Track Day a month ago, I was using the P28 w/JDMsh!t proggy in the car and it felt good around the course.


Nice write up </TD></TR></TABLE>

No **** man, get on that. I'm sure these guys want #'s to back up what my *** tells me.

jdmegciv

thanx for the write up decision made lets see some numbers Newman.

Adam.

Original Post Updated

H25

obviously a chipped p28 ecu will run harder compared to teh stock p13 .. those things are known to feel like piggys.. id pick a stock gsr ecu over a stock p13 anyday.. but chipped ecu all the way.. we charge the same 120 shipped.. we also run a chipped p28 in our competition street all motor car. works great!

Newman

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Katman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
get on IT newwwwwwwwwwwman!! curious to see the results

will you be testing on a totally stock H22 ?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ok.... I got some chit done and taken care of now.... I'll see about getting around to it here this week or next. Yeah, the motor will be a stock JDM H22A w/LSD tranny, and with I/H/E only so it should be a good baseline to run against different ECU setups.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jdmegciv &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thanx for the write up decision made lets see some numbers Newman.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Will try and work on it this week if the guys have some time

Braco11

just out of curiosity, why was it going into limp mode with the p13?

Adam.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Braco11 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">just out of curiosity, why was it going into limp mode with the p13?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Even though everyone says it's not EGR, that's the only thing that's possible. So that's what I'm guessing. There was a noticable difference in power between when the EGR cel was on as compared to before it was on.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Newman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Ok.... I got some chit done and taken care of now.... I'll see about getting around to it here this week or next. Yeah, the motor will be a stock JDM H22A w/LSD tranny, and with I/H/E only so it should be a good baseline to run against different ECU setups.

Will try and work on it this week if the guys have some time </TD></TR></TABLE>

Damn, matching my exact setup think you'll be throwing an AN-R header on there or something

iakona

.

(just cause i want to watch this unfold)