tinkerbell

i have a lead on a JDM B20B block,

i have been told it is a '96 CRV block,

the block stamp is: B20B116xxxx

can anyone tell me what the CR is? ie is it 9.6:1???

thanks,

t..

#417R

You have a 97-98 Crv block with the 8:8:1 compression. Here's a link for info concerning B20's http://hybrid.honda-perf.org/tech/b20/b20tech.html.
Hope that helps.

tinkerbell

i have conflicting data...

i have been told that it is a JDM '96 block, not a 97/98 block.

the only info i have about the 96 CRV is from the honda.co.jp website:

which indicates that the block is B20B, the CR is 9.6:1
output = 130PS @ 5'500rpm & 19kg/m @ 4'200rpm
see:http://www.honda.co.jp/HOT/ModelData.../shogen96.html

but i would love it if someone could confirm this info!!

thanks,

t..

Newman

All JDM B20B motors have the "Z" pistons in them for a 9.6:1 compression. When we took my head off, the pistons on my 97 JDM B20B were the same as the US B20Z pistons.... I have picts somewhere for comparison.

tinkerbell

hmmmm, even more conflicting data...

this is verrrry confusing:

http://www.honda.co.jp/HOT/ModelData.../shogen97.html

below the 'B20B' in all that special characters, it states the two compressions for the 97 CRVs were 8.8:1(2wd) and 9:2:1(4wd)

it is strange as the 98 CRV specs show the CR back up to 9.6:1!?!?
http://www.honda.co.jp/HOT/ModelData.../shogen98.html

maybe some pics may help...ANYONE?

t..

eg6ajk

but remeber that not all B20Bs are from CRV but some are from the S-MX (wagon)
those with LS manifold are likly from the SMX due to tight clearance and usually have the 9.6 c/r
my buddys stock JDM b20b in a 93 teg (all stock including the manifold and exhaust/ecu) pulled 139whp and 137lb/ft of torque to the wheels on dyno jet....

http://www.honda.co.jp/HOT/ModelData...smx/index.html







[Modified by eg6ajk, 4:04 PM 4/9/2002]

Newman

Nah... mine is from an Orthia wagon

tinkerbell

thanks for all this new info!!!

so does that mean that all Japanese B20Bs are 9.6:1 CR?

is the only whay to know by looking at the pistons?

or would the block stamp help?

t..

PS eg6ajk, no mods, stock everything JDM B20B = 136whp?!?!

WICKED!!!!!!!!


[Modified by tinkerbell, 10:51 AM 4/10/2002]

tinkerbell

OK, can i assume that if the engine looks like this it has a B20B/Z high compression block ie 9.6:1 CR?



thanks,

t..

daver

I dunno, i understand that they only put those crazy boxes on the USDM b20b 8.8:1cr engines. When they went to the Z's they dropped it (here). May say somthing about the jdm ones or it may not.

d


[Modified by daver, 9:01 PM 4/10/2002]

Newman

If you look closely at the picts I posted, you'll notice that it's a B18B LS intake manifold. At least in the wagons in Japan that come with B20 motors, they have LS-style manifolds.... dunno about JDM CRVs (my mom's sister in Tokyo has a 99 Japanese CRV... I'll check it out next time I'm back over there).

daver

Ok, according to the honda hybrid site, they say that those big "box" style IMs came with the b20z, not the B (USDM). I understood that it came on the Bs here - oops. If its supposed to increase midrange torque on the Z, it sure did a good job of flatening off the peak tork, by leaving it the same 133 as the B and only 200 rpms higher. But notice how the HP is 20 higher peak and 800 rpms further up ( http://hybrid.honda-perf.org/tech/b20/b20tech.html ). This must mean (extrapolating) that the torque curve must not drop off as quick on the Z. So the big box must help flatten the torque curve. But this is the USDM b20 tech!!!

I went to the jdm honda site and took the liberty of recording all the b20b specs...

JDM CR-V w/b20b...

1996:

cr - 9.6:1
ps - 130@5500
kgm - 19.0@4200

1997:

(2wd?)
cr - 8.8:1
ps - 130@5500
kgm - 18.8@4200

(4wd?)
cr - 9.2:1
ps - 145@6200
kgm - 18.2@5200

1998:

cr - 9.6:1
ps - 150@6300
kgm - 18.8@4500

JDM S-MX w/b20b...

1996:

cr - 8.8:1
ps - 130@5500
kgm - 18.7@4200

1999:

cr - 9.6:1
ps - 140@5500
kgm - 19.0@4200

2000:

cr - 9.6:1
ps - 140@5500
kgm - 19.0@4200

JDM Orthia w/b20b...

1996:

(2.0GX, 2.0GX-S)
cr - 9.2:1
ps - 145@6200
kgm - 18.2@5200

1998:

2.0GX, 2.0GX-S)
cr - 9.2:1
ps - 145@6200
kgm - 18.2@5200

I'm pretty sure that those were the only 3 vehicles there that carted the b20b's around. So according to those specs, yep, those engines came with 3 possible cr's. Newman claims that his orthia b20b had the 9.6:1 usdm pistons in 'em, but this site says that all the orthias (listed) had a 9.2:1 cr. Is it possible that they had deshrouded the comb chambers on some heads (they say it it will lose about 0.4cr....!!? What year was your Orthio Newman, any insight?

This is my extrapolation guess from these numbers (assuming i didn't typo them ( check yourself http://www.honda.co.jp/HOT/ModelData/ and go to the pull down box in the middle and pick a car car)...

the '96 crv had the high rise manifold giving good low end power but suckyer high end and is probably really an 8.8:1 engine, not 9.6:1 (it doesn't make sense to go backwards and none of the other cars had the 9.6:1 in '96) The 130ps should equate to about 126hp or so, like the b20b here . The '97 version #1 was the same as '96 and someone typod the torque rating (on one or the other). Model two had the 9.6:1 pistons with the LS manifold (and deshrouded comp. chambers?? Newman?). This setup gave better high end hp but lost some peak tork and probably low end too. The '98 cr-v used the 9.6:1 pistons too, but had the fancy new low rise IM along with tork flatlining box. This setup gave the most hp of any of the b20b's, and further up. The peak tork is about the same as the 8.8.1 engines thanks to the increased cr. The 150ps should equate to about the 146hp we have here in the Z.

The s-mx looks like a van and i believe the '96's likely had the high rise IM again to go along with the 8.8:1cr pistons like the B here. No idea what happened to the '97/'98 specs; probably the same as '96. In '99 and 2000 they went up to the 9.6:1 pistons, but the peak hp is lesser and further down the band than the '98+ crv. I'm guessing they stayed with the high rise IM on this turkey.

Now the Orthia was a wagon and it needed a low rise IM. Newman states that his had the LS manifold (so does his picture), so i believe all of the Orthia's did 'cause all their specs are the same. And it looks like the same setup as the '97 crv verson #2. Newman, it says 9.2:1 cr and you say its got the Z pistons. Did you happen to check to see if the combustion chambers were 84mm wide. There's got to be and explanation for all these numbers and they can't all be typos.

d

tinkerbell

hence my confusion...

i am of the belief that the hybrid article is wrong.

well, not 'wrong' - just 'not right'

people treat that info like gospel "you have a 97/98 - it is 8.8:1 CR"...

can there be a way to identify a engine by its block number????????

or do we have to extrapolate like daver, with somewhat inconclusive results (no offence dude - good work!)...

we cant ask honda.co cause they wont give a ****,

anyways,

any help is welcome...

t..

daver

Ya, my extrapolations up there are definately not the gospel. Just some educated guesses that i was hoping some more experienced people could help verify (or contradict).

d

RMS

Without exagerating I can say we've pulled heads off DOZENS of JDM B20Bs. Every single one bears the same piston casting...PF7, I think, which is the same as the B20B4. Tall intake mans, short ones, you name it. I'm a little stumped on where the CR diff is coming from as all the heads have the same casting as well.

tinkerbell

hmmm, well, the two block engine stamps i am looking at are B20B1xxxx and B20B3xxxx

i spoke with my local honda guys asking about the part numbers on the '97 B20B and '99 B20B pistons - which are different.

this is AUSDM which is same as JDM almost.

still, does this shed any light?

how much difference will the 0.8 lower CR make to the power output anyways?

can i raise the CR of the 8.8:1 B20B block if i fit the B16A head? anyone know the CR of this combo?

thanks again,

t..

daver

AUSDM only has b20b's and they are all the same as JDM? Interesting.

Its hard to know at which model number they switched pistons (if they indeed did). That "claimed" 9.2:1 in the Orthia car could easily have been a mistake because the GX model had a b18b, which we know has a 9.2:1 cr here through every year. Maybe some fool just put the same cr down for all the Orthia models. Doesn't explain that '97 crv 9.2:1 anomaly. Crap this is hard. Probably just get the highest block number possible. '98 and up seems safe to me according to those specs listed. Here of course, it wasn't til '99 that the Z came out; 1 year delay seems appropriate. I'm starting to shop for my b20b today...

I just noticed that you a from Sydney. My brother moved there about a month ago; living in Manly actually. Says its nice there, although lots of taxes, fairly expensive, some things have funny names and all the light switches are upside down. I guess they have switch in reverse 'cause your upside down from us hehe.

d

tinkerbell

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

yeah, its cool here, i really dont think i like the sound of some of the stuff that goes down in the US of A...

Manly is sweet, sunny beaches/hot chicks/lots of tourists & a few HOT rides

im pretty sure teh stuff we get here closely resembles the JDM. some of our compliancing laws are stricter, as were our pollution laws untill a little while ago...

anyways,

here downunder, the CRV was the only model with B20B's. the model changed over in feb '99 from what i have found out. (it went from 94kw to 108kw...)

i have a lead on a AUSDM 98 block with block stamp B20B3xxxxx

and also on a JDM 96 block with block stamp B20B1xxxx

i have heard from the internet that B20B4xxxx is definitely a 9.6:1 CR...

anyways, good luck in your search, could you let us all know what you find out...

im still on the case though,

t..

(oh, **** - you're from Canada! love that place! fully one of the best!!)


[Modified by tinkerbell, 1:30 PM 4/14/2002]


[Modified by tinkerbell, 1:34 PM 4/14/2002]

1stealthls

so let me get this straight. the jdm b20b which was made in 97 but put in a 98
is not the 146hp 133ftlbs tq. if this is true i will be very angry. im just really confused please help. my block says b20b and thats it it isnt a b20b3 or a b20b4
wtf...

daver

Are there not at least some smaller numbers written directly under the B20B stamp? I havn't seen a b20 engine yet, but my other honda engines are like that. I'm thinking i'll just try to be safe and make sure i get a '98+ engine (b20B4 i think). It is logically inconsistant for honda to change and engine and NOT change its name (like over here they called it the Z). Maybe they have different rules there or maybe all their b20b are the Z engines.

What do you think of this story tho. I called around for my jdm b20b, couldn't find a good price. Finally found a shop that had ONE and only one ( '98 b20b4 longblock) that they were willing to get rid of for 1g CDN (like $600 US). SOLD!!! When they went to pull it off the warehouse shelf they dropped it (i guess, they tried to talk around it) and smashed it to death. It had less than 50 k kms on it and this shop goes to Jap and runs and tests all their engines before they personally pull them. What a waste. Ruined my weekend, i'm still mad

d

daver

btw, i think that the Honda power ratings are under rated for the b20Z engine. I havn't seen one dyno chart that put down less than 125lbs and 130hp to the wheels. Plus 15% equates to 145lbs and 150hp to the fly (almost), and that one was with an old clogged cat. They seem to add 10hp with a test pipe. I'm sure the "lesser" b20b engine (if there is such a thing) won't be far behind

tinkerbell

yerah B20B this, B20B that!!!

if it is only 0.8 compression points down - what effect will that have on power?

not too much??? a couple of HP??? or torque???

yeah - daver, that sux man, i feel the pain! ((everything happens for a reason though...))

you seem to be right though: we have to lines of thought.

1. there is the JDM B20B with 9.6:1 compression and there are non-JDM B20B's with 8.8:1 and 9.6:1 compression and there is theUSDM B20Z's with 9.6:1

or

2. there are JDM B20's with 8.8 and 9.6 CR's and there are non-JDM B20B's with 8.8:1 and 9.6:1 compression and there is theUSDM B20Z's with 9.6:1.

no. 2 is the way im leaning, with no concrete proof, unconfirmed reports state all JDM blocks are 9.6 CR, my honda dealer says the pistons in AUSDM changed over in early 1999 (part no.s are different)

im sure about the AUSDM engines - the early ones were 8.8 and later ones were 9.6.

i am still working on the JDM mystery...

IGBTYS,

t..

daver

USDM the '97/'98 b20bs in the had the 8.8:1 cr pistons. These engines were in the crv's and only the crv's here and that was the only engine available. '99+ came the b20z which replaced the b20bs as the crv engine and it had the 9.6:1 pistons. The B's here are rated for 126hp at the fly and 133 tork. The Z's here are 146hp and 133lbs of tork also (peak).

Everyone who has opened up a JDM b20b engine that i have seen posted about, said that it has the same piston number as the Z pistons here. The only discrepancy is that Jap honda site which claims all those crazy cr #s and different power numbers. That's where my research has ended.

So the AUSDM b20s changed in '99 like here but they kept the same b20B name?

tinkerbell

yep. kept the same B20B classification.

changed the piston part numbers...

(13020 PHK 000 to 13021 PHK 003)

maybe the honda.co.jp site is not correct...

hmmm,

t..

tinkerbell

the plot thickens...

news just in (for those that care) the AUSDM B20B increased power from 98 to 99 but kept the same compression ratio of 8.8:1...

looks like only a JDM B20B post '98 for me...

or a USDM B20Z (if the exchange rate ever gets better...)

anyways,

t..