Daemonico

Hey I am most of the way through a JDM H23a vtec swap into a 1997 EK/EJ civic. I bought a H23a semi complete motor and it is installed in the civic's bay. I have the harness for the h23 and a complete harness for the civic (pulled from the junkyard off an auto 96 or 97 civic. Im using the civic harness (obd2) with the OBD2 motor, however I will be using a P28 chipped and mapped already for this motor. I also have a Rywire OBD2 to OBD1 conversion harness. At this point I have extended the alternator wires to fit the motor and wired in a injector resistor box. Im trying to complete the wiring but am stuck on the distributor. I have read conflicting information about what I need to do. From what I understand I need to rip a coil out of a distributor that has an internal coil. Then I need to install it into my (currently external) distributor. I am confused on WHY this is necessary and what exactly I need to wire in. Right now there is an 8 wire plug and 2 wire plug coming off the distributor. What wires are needed from the civic harness in order to connect to this thing? This is one of the last things I need to complete the car. Any help would be appreciated

n*werk

Don't know if your lazy or really dumb, you shouldn't be doing this swap.
Please search, all the information regarding swap are cover on honda-tech. Sorry if it sound mean but damn your post make no ******* sense. Like you need help physical someone who know cars that can help guide you in the right direction. This forum is here for people to help others but when this topic is covered and you're post is so stupid. Make me feel bad for you if I tell you that you can do it by doing this this this, but reality is that you can't cause you don't understand the basic. Better to keep your car running then messing it, or you can sell everything and buy yourself a reliable car. Or play with the car and get some knowledge from trail and error. But really, look for someone local to help you out.

Daemonico

Why are you such a hostile *****? I have done tons of research for the swap and every single guide gives conflicting information. If you had the time to rant, why couldn't you refer me to something useful? Some sources like to tell you that you must swap oil pumps and other parts while others advise to convert the distributor. Please explain why I am so stupid?

osc007

iTrader: (4)

On my swap, I used a 99-00 obd2b (non ex) engine harness on my H23a Vtec and the distributor plugs plugged right in wo any issues. It seems as if you are using the obd2a harness (not sure of the differences if any between the obd2a vs obd2b)

The link below has wiring pin outs for each so looking at the differences is possible there. I just finished my swap and did all of the wiring myself.

http://phearable.net/information/tech-area.html

Here is a pic of mine, not to ***** her out but more so of creditability check ... good luck

HiProfile

You need to figure out why those "sources" tell you do it a certain way. Certain cars need the distributor converted to external coil, some need the large single dizzy plug, some need the two obd1 plugs, some only need a 4-wire plug and an obd2 oil pump & sensors added to the motor.

In your case, you either need to convert the engine harness for an external coil or convert your distributor to internal coil. Most Preludes use an external coil, while most Civic & Integras use internal coils. The H23A is usually swapped into Preludes, thus the reason most of those guides recommend external coils. Converting the distributor is easier than changing the wiring IMO.

I recommend you study the differences between internal coil, external coil, OBD2 distributors that use external sensors on the oil pump, and obd1/JDM distributors that use internal sensors. Then you'll be able to figure out what's needed, and why. I prefer internal coil & sensors, since it makes it most like a D/B swap, which is well-documented.

Daemonico

Thanks for the info. I have been reading a lot of h23a swaps, but like you said, most are into preludes so some of info is non compatible. Im trying to avoid having to install a new oil pump and sensors. The motor currently has an external coil. It seems that I will need to convert to internal coil? I found a write up on adding the internal coil and wiring it. Out of curiousity, is there no way to use the h23a distributor as it is now, why?

Daemonico

Nice pic man. Yes, I am using the obd2a harness as I learned it was best to use what came in the car. I guess that wasnt the case here. At this point I already have a chipped p28 that has the correct map for this motor. I also have an obd2a to obd1 rywire harness. Arent the plugs diff completely for the obd2b ? I would have to start over completely to switch harnesses I think

1991_crxsi

iTrader: (1)

If you are running a p28, then you are going to need an OBD1 distributor. You cannot run an OBD2 H series distributor on an OBD1 ECU even if you get a jumper. This is different form the B series stuff. If I am wrong about this (which is possible) please do us all a favor and post a thread showing how to wire the H22 OBD2 distributor to run on an OBD1 ECU since I was unable to locate any threads on that. If I overlooked a pre-existing thread then I apologize and request that you please post a link to it on here so that I may have it for my records.

The correct distributor is either a JDM OBD1 internal coil TD-60U, or a USDM external coil OBD1 distributor TTD-61U. Just follow your OBD1 ECU pinout to wire it up, or I think (but do not know for sure) that the OBD2 to OBD1 distributor jumper will work for the internal coil. I used the OBD1 internal coil on my H23A Bluetop and it worked perfectly. Zero issues. Also be sure to change your IACV to the OBD1 2 wire module instead of the OBD2 3 wire unit that came on your engine. Good luck with everything, I love my H23A, I am sure you will love yours.

Daemonico

Osc007 , did u have distributor wires that didnt match the pinouts all over the internet?

Here is the pinout for the 8pinned distributor plug on the H23a vtec:
1- yellow/green
2- blue/green
3- orange/blue
4- orange
5- blue (thicker wire and was green on male side)
6- blue/ yellow
7 - white/ blue
8- white

And the 2pinned dizzy plug:
1- blue (16guage)
2- yellow (way thicker. It is black/yellow on the male side)

The civic harness has a standard big blue plug with 7+2 wires.

Daemonico

Phearable.net is def the best source I have seen. Ive been searching for weeks and find bits and pieces... thats a very good site. Thanks

osc007

iTrader: (4)

For my distributor set up I literally just took my OBD2b (unmodified) distributor plug and connected it in to the distributor that came stock on the H23a Vtec, no tach problems or splicing whatsoever was involved for the distributor on my end.

I did have to extend some wires, depin the IAT and use a different sensor plug since the H23a had the sensor on the manifold while my harness had it in a different location, and the IACV 2-wire mod is a must. I am running a Hondata s300 p75 with a base map from phearable with no CEL. Only one I had was for the IACV, until I switched to the 2 wire.

Also I have the later version of the H23a Bluetops, meaning that it was the 00-01 model. Don't know if that plays a role.

Daemonico

That's awesome that you got it to plug and play so easily. Too bad that information wasnt in any writeup i had found up to now. Most everything said it would be best to have a p28 chipped (obviously obd1). Thats why i bought a chipped p28, obd2a->obd1 conversion harness, and a harness out of the 96 civic. Unfortunatly the alternator, distributor and a couple of sensors did not match up plug for plug. The alternator was easy as hell, all wires matched up, so i simply swapped the plug from the harness that came on the motor and extended it. Basically, my greatest issue is trying to finish the wiring for the distributor. I plan on spending the rest of the day reading up on that site you linked. I am just confused as a couple of wires do not match up to what the diagrams show. Additionally, the previous h23a motor owner had it in a 93 prelude and said it worked perfectly fine with a p28 ecu and the external coil. Dont understand how he got it to run that way. (not converted to internal).

Daemonico

Osc007, are you using an external coil or did you convert to internal coil dizzy?

Daemonico

Here are pics. First pic is the big blue dizzy plug from the 96 obd2a (I believe). Pic 2 is of the jdm h23a dizzy plugs, 8 wire and a 2 wire.

Based on the dizzy pinout: http://phearable.net/images/tech/wir...pluglegend.jpg

I dont get why my dizzy plugs are 8 + 2 when the closest thing on that diagram is 7+2

Also I included my pinouts for the civic dizzy plug removed off the harness and the jdm plugs ill solder in it`s place. Anyone know the correct pinout for the jdm plugs so I dont eff up my car. Thanks a lot for the help

osc007

iTrader: (4)

Again this is with out any research but do you have this adapter?

http://www.rywire.com/catalog/obd2-1...pter-p-44.html

That could be a possible solution, now the distributor is obd1 right? I ask because that is not the same Distributor I have on mine, my H23a vtec distributor plug is as so...

Daemonico

Thanks a lot for the pics and help. Wow, I guess this distributor is not the one that came on the motor. If I cant figure out how to wire this up, maybe ill buy a new dizzy with a single plug. Its really odd that I cant find a single write up with anyone that has the same wiring from the dizzy plugs. I assume you are running an obd2 ecu? If u are, mine will look different obviously. Hopefully someone will chime in.

osc007

iTrader: (4)

Nope.. Obd1 p75 with a Hondata S300... base map for the time being.

I didn't find much if any, there are a few builds that basically say that it is plug and play but then the specifics on the harness is vague. I researched it basically with the first link I provided and can't say lady luck wasn't a factor either; I did spend COUNTLESS hours researching this swap just to keep the cost down.

1991_crxsi

iTrader: (1)

Nope, that is the OBD2 H22 JDM internal coil distributor that came with it. If someone on HT is using that dizzy, then please post an ECU pinout to color wire on the Distributor guide. For example: A1 to Blue and yellow distributor wire…etc.… etc…. That would be the best way to sort this out. I would be thrilled to learn how you can use the H22 JDM OBD2 internal coil on a P28. It would save some folks a $100 on their swaps so that is always nice.
Here is my advice: Just buy an OBD1 Dizzy. See my above posts for part numbers. You can order them from ebay for UNDER $100. You can save the coil (and possibly the ICM) from your OBD2 Distributor in case you need replacement parts later on down the road.

nub

To me the H series plugs look like standard OBD1 distributor plugs with two exceptions. On the 2 wire plug the large yellow would be blk/yel and the extra blue wire in the lower left corner looking at the wire side of the plug.

I would try doing it like a standard OBD1 to OBD2A distributor conversion leaving the extra blue wire un used.

Daemonico

Okay. Question though, is the obd1 dizzys all internal or external coil? My current dizzy is external coil. What im getting at is, what determines what you NEED to have? If the wiring can be matched so the dizzy is wired up, will it work with the obd1 p28 ecu? Or does it require internal coil?

1991_crxsi

iTrader: (1)

Above are listed the 2 OBD1 H22 Distributor options. You can get them on ebay or amazon for between $65-$100 complete. One is internal coil and the other is external coil. You can choose either one you like. Nothing determines which one you NEED to use, only your preference. Therefore, you can use either on the p28. They are completely interchangeable and compatible with the P28 but the wiring is different. Just follow your ECU pin out.
If this seems to be a bit too much trouble perhaps you can contact Monotech and ask him to make you a jumper from your harness to the OBD1 H22 internal or external coil. He is on here, but he also has an ebay store.

nub

[quote=Daemonico;49590481]Okay. Question though, is the obd1 dizzys all internal or external coil?

I don't know much on F and H motors but I'm sure it depends on the original market it was intended for.

My current dizzy is external coil.

Are you SURE? Have you removed the cap to make sure there isn't a coil internal? It looks like you have a coil terminal on the cap in one of your pictures. Based on the plugs and wire colors you posted it looks like an internal coil set up.

What im getting at is, what determines what you NEED to have?

What you NEED in and out of the ecu is TDC, CKP, CYS and ignition power in. That alone is 7 wires and all of yours are going INTO the distributor.

If the wiring can be matched so the dizzy is wired up, will it work with the obd1 p28 ecu? Or does it require internal coil?

Internal or external coil doesn't matter, they work the same if wired correct.[/quote]

Take a look at an OBD1 Civic/Integra distributor plug pin out. Your plugs match exactly except for the yellow wire (Blk/Yel) on the 2 pin plug and the extra blue wire on the 8 pin plug.

0MOTORVATIONS

iTrader: (1)

The plugs that you show in the second pic are those of an EXTERNAL coiled distributor... this is identified by the eighth (larger blue) wire in the 8-pin plug that connects to a green wire on the other side as you mentioned.

The easiest way to solve your distributor dilemma is to acquire a JDM OBD-1 H22A distributor (which is internally coiled), with the same plug styles that you have identified, but only SEVEN wires found in the 8-pin plug. All 3 sensor pairs would be found inside the distributor just like your OBD-2 civic distributor and the ICM would be the 7th wire. Search for an OBD-2A to OBD-1 distributor wiring conversion diagram and pair all wires up and you would be done.

NOTE: (I can't remember off the top of my head the exact pairing, but if you cannot find it, PM me and I will get it to you)

The OBD-2A sensor pairs are red/green, black/yellow, and blue/white.
The OBD-1 sensor pairs are orange/white, orange/blue and white/blue, blue/yellow and blue/green.

Obviously, the yellow/green ICM wire matches up and so do the two wires in the 2-pin plug (black/yellow power wire and blue tach signal)

OPTION 2:

Use the distributor you have, locate a USDM external coil, mounting brackets with bolts and the plug that connects to the bottom of the coil with 6-12" of wire coming out of the bottom of the plug. You would then connect all of the above wires in the 8 pin connector AND do the following:

Connect the larger blue (turns to green) wire found directly below the yellow/green wire, to the blue or green wire at the coil plug. Connect the Black/yellow power wire from your original ECU plug to the Black/yellow wire of the external coil. Connect the large yellow wire of the 2-pin connector to the external coil plug as well. This leaves the small blue wire next to the large black/yellow of your original distributor plug... connect it to the small blue wire in the 2-pin distributor plug.

Good luck.

yungmulacrx

Ill post up how to wire the obd 2 h series distributors later tonight.. The only downfall is having to run a seperate tach wire..

HiProfile

FYI the 7+2 is for internal coil. 8+2 is external coil, and that extra wire (usually green) is the output wire to the coil. You can also remove & repin most of the wires into the new plug if you haven't already cut them.


The need for internal or external coil is determined by YOU - do what's easiest! External coil is considered better since the coil stays cooler, but IMO it's not a weak point so I prefer internal coil. I had to convert an external coil dizzy to internal coil for my F22, and it was easy. I also modified the original H23A dizzy to be compatible with a Civic, it just needs the correct plugs & tach wire added. The following link shows the info for both:

http://www.d-series.org/forums/showc...ml#post2658441

External coil can be done, but needs more wiring. Since you can easily convert to internal coil & use any obd1/obd2 Civic coil in the H-series distributor, I'd suggest internal coil.