JDogg

this is a 98 civic ex with a jdm h22a. type s cams, butterfly plate removed from the intake manifold, disabled balancer shafts, greddy header, piece of **** exhaust thrown together from leftover parts, the ice man short ram from the d16 and a chipped p28. thanks to j.davis for the ecu, jumper harness and baseline chip, and JMI for the swap.

198hp and 148 tq




we did some intake manifold testing and found gains across the board from removing the butterfly plate.

fastwanabe

great info

cccya

i like the #'s

Geek

my H22A in my EK civic only does 150hp on the dyno is that normal?.. or bad for me?


Modified by Geek at 4:02 AM 1/9/2004

JDogg

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Geek &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my H22A in my EK civic only does 150hp on the dyno is that normal?.. or bad for me?</TD></TR></TABLE>

thats bad

Geek

yeah.. 112kw at the wheels.. I wonder y its that bad then.


Modified by Geek at 5:13 AM 1/9/2004

jarel

nice are those numbers at the flywheel?

2.2L EH2

awesome numbers man.

see_our_vtec

running without the butterfly's(and an ecu that does not support them) is killing your torque.

nice hp though, on the graph it says that 198.3 was flywheel hp, what was the actual whp?

Maintenance

nice numbers

Adam.

whoa, nice hp numbers, but yeah your torque has gone to hell. And isn't that really the point of the extra displacement?

Andy M

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by see_our_vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">running without the butterfly's(and an ecu that does not support them) is killing your torque....</TD></TR></TABLE>

Where are you reading that? It looks like his torque is higher all the way across the graph, except for at the very bottom end, where it's the same. Am I reading it wrong?

JDMH22HATCH

iTrader: (6)

Great numbers. I'm running a similar setup except I'm on stock cams and stock header, and I made 206 whp with 160 lb of torque. I'm pretty sure with a little bit more of fine tuning you can produce some higher numbers. Good numbers

see_our_vtec

at 3500ish his torque falls below 120, that is horrible, granted up top torque is good, but down low the absence of butterfly's is killing his torque.

JDogg

the dyno you see is before and after tuning. i dont have a printout of hte before and after butterfly plate but it did NOT loose any, keyboard dynos are fun but i know what the dyno said.

its actual wheel hp. there is a transmision correction factor (tcf) that you can set to make it flywheel hp, we leave it at 1 so there is no correction.

the dip below 120 is on the baseline runs, not the tuned runs, look again.

jdmhatch.. how the hell did you make 206 with stock cams. sounds like you got a type s motor. there is no way you did that on stock cams and stock compression with a normal jdm h22.

see_our_vtec

even if it was a baseline that i was looking at, that huge dip in torque is a pretty big problem. i've never seen an h22 dyno reverse spike like that before, and it's been dyno proven over and over again that the absence of butterfly's lose power.

but like i said nice numbers.

JDogg

then your looking at some screwed up graphs. i have seen graphs that had the butterflys fully closed and fully open with very little difference.

i know it worked, i saw it on the dyno. the car isnt fully tuned yet and there are still some issues with the intake and exhaust that will probably bring the dip up. the bottom of the dip is about 124ft lbs after tuning and such. keep in mind the scale is really big so you see way more detail than a normal dyno graph. on a dynojet graph it would look pretty smooth.

JDMH22HATCH

iTrader: (6)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDogg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">jdmhatch.. how the hell did you make 206 with stock cams. sounds like you got a type s motor. there is no way you did that on stock cams and stock compression with a normal jdm h22.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Good tuning and a lot of time. It could be a type s motor, but to my knowledge its just a 94 JDM h22a. All stock internals and stock cams.

see_our_vtec

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDogg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">then your looking at some screwed up graphs. i have seen graphs that had the butterflys fully closed and fully open with very little difference.

i know it worked, i saw it on the dyno. the car isnt fully tuned yet and there are still some issues with the intake and exhaust that will probably bring the dip up. the bottom of the dip is about 124ft lbs after tuning and such. keep in mind the scale is really big so you see way more detail than a normal dyno graph. on a dynojet graph it would look pretty smooth.</TD></TR></TABLE>

when you dyno'd before taking them out, did you use the p28 ecu?

Jason kiDD

Interesting numbers. I hope to get a basline dyno and a tuned dyno this up and coming year.. Hopefully I can share something of worth..

JDogg

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by see_our_vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

when you dyno'd before taking them out, did you use the p28 ecu?</TD></TR></TABLE>

we tuned it with the butterfly plate in, then took the plate out and made the necessary corrections.

jdmh22... there is a 7 or 8 digit number below the engine code stamp, whats that code say. 1million series is normal 4th gen prelude h22, to my knowledge there are 5million, 7 million and 3 million series h22's.

see_our_vtec

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDogg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

we tuned it with the butterfly plate in, then took the plate out and made the necessary corrections.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

that didn't answer my question, did you dyno the motor with a p28 ecu or not? above it says a chipped p28. but i'm curious if you used the same ecu's with and without the plate.

Pikachu

Supposedly unless you run a hondata setup with type-s maps on a p28, it's not going to run as well as a stock P13. I'm running a P13 at the moment but switching to AEM EMS in the coming month. Good luck with your project.

JDogg

teh p28 had a stock p13 program to begin with, we tuned it using crome.. a free hondata like rom editor curtsey of the guys at pgmfi.org. we tuned it with the plate in, then took the plate out and even with out changing anything we saw gains everywhere. then we made a few small corrections to the maps.

see_our_vtec

then you did know that even with the butterfly's out it was allmost pointless right?because the p28 does not use butterfly's thus they are open all the time. if you were to use a p72 or a p13,(not a chipped program) then you would pick up a significant amount of power down low, because that ecu uses the butterfly's to channel velocity to pick up power downlow then switch over to open butterfly's and make topend power. it's like using two different intake manifolds, a short runner, and a long runner. your dyno is as if you were just using a short runner. no torque all power, and the dyno shows this.

For power of that magnitude, you are 20-30 ft lbs shy of wher eyou should be, and i am guessing it is because of the non functioning iab's.