toolowsol

ok i have a picture here of what I think the little arm should look like when the secondaries are open, is this correct?? And also I tapped a17 on my obd1 p72 ecu, and its reading a constant 12V, even if i rev it past 6K rpm's, should this switch to ground to activate the secondaries?? Any Ideas on how to get them working, i'm lost

toolowsol

ok i've done a little more work, my ecu still always shows 12v, damn it... unless the car has to be moving or something.... i've also tried manually grounding the blue/pink wire and running 12v switched to the black wire but the secondaries don't seem to move?? they are always in the "high rev" position in my diagram up top. assuming my diagram isn't backwards.

MaxSterling

secondaries on gsr manifold works the opposite of you pic...

low rpms the arm is up and closes the secondary, 5800rpm the arm is down opening the valve, and when the car is off the arm is down.

electronicly this is how the ecu controls the secondary: upon starting car, ecu gives secondary 12v's to direct solenoid to force vacuum to move arm up closing valve.
at 5800rpm ecu takes away that 12v source, and arm moves down by strings and forces valves open.

if you have obd1 ecu you need to connect pink wire to a17 (ground switch) and yellow/black wire to 12v (12v source that is connect to ignition or simply tapping other yellow black wires) note: a17 pin on the ecu is short and sometime people dont connect the wires all the way... make sure it makes a nice connection.

for obd2 and jdm ecus you hook up the secondaries the opposite. meaning pink to the engine ground (any black or black/brown wire) source and black wire to a17 (12v swtiching at ecu).

later


Modified by RoyFokker at 12:44 PM 8/17/2003

toolowsol

thank you for your reply, much appreciated!

I have a JDM obd1 ecu, so does this mean I should have the black wire go to A17?

Also, i have hooked a multimeter to a17 and driven the car, it puts out 12V no matter what rpm, do you think my ecu is bad?

And lastly, I've tried directly connecting the power and ground wires to the AIB, but either way i have the power and ground, it does not release vacuum pressure so i'm thinking that must be bad as well, what do you think

MaxSterling

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by toolowsol &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I have a JDM obd1 ecu, so does this mean I should have the black wire go to A17?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by toolowsol &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Also, i have hooked a multimeter to a17 and driven the car, it puts out 12V no matter what rpm, do you think my ecu is bad?</TD></TR></TABLE>

might be bad, but i doubt it... i would check the iab solenoid(hidden under the intake manifold, look like EVAP solenoid, in fact you can you EVAP solenoid in its place if it IAB solenoid is cracked) ... its plastic might hava a crack.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by toolowsol &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
And lastly, I've tried directly connecting the power and ground wires to the AIB, but either way i have the power and ground, it does not release vacuum pressure so i'm thinking that must be bad as well, what do you think</TD></TR></TABLE>

if the solenoid has a crack, hooking it up either way wont do nothing...

do this: have car off....connect blk wire to 12v battery directly and connect pink to negatvie battery. you should hear a click....if you hear is click, then the solenoid is able to switch valves. if you here nothing, try the opposite (black to neg. and pink to 12v)...if nothing then your iab soleniod is electrically busted.

NOTE AGAIN: if you do hear a click and know solenoid is electrically sound don't mean its mechanically sound. it might be cracked and have a vacuum leak.

Finally if see you do hear a click by the above methods, your next test is as follows:
turn car on, and hook IAB wires so the solenoid clicks...when it clicks the IAB arm should move UP in the full up position....check to see (use finger and push the arm up)?

if YES (arm in up) need you REAL problem is either one or all of the following? 1) loose wiring on ecu end. 2) bad ecu 3) loosing connection to a16.

if NO (arm in down), your REAL problem is one or all of he following? 1) cracked IAB solenoid 2) vacuum lines improperly connected.

once you diag where the problem is we'll figure a solution.

toolowsol

thanks man, much appreciated, looks like my IAB is shot, guess i will try to find a new one. Also, looks like we have very similar mods I have del sol with B18C, b16 tranny with LSD, tein SS coilovers, and neuspeed strut bar, and GSR sway bars

stockegsix

dude thanks a lot, ive been having a lot of problems with my IAB, how do you check for vacum leaks

SpyderZEX

Everybody else told me that OBD1 A17 is the ground and other wire should have 12V source. I've heard about 100 people tell me the same thing, including a guy from hasport. I thought that the ecu gives the 12V charge on OBD2 engines. WTF?

Sorry but I'm a little frustrated.

Nevermind I went back and reread what you had written, and I see that you are confirming what I heard. Sorry about that, it just sounded a little weird the first time I read it.

stockegsix

i feel you too, ive tried almost everything, i still cant get it to work, it might be my iab itself

SpyderZEX

I bought a second IAB solenoid from a guy on here and that still didn't work. I've checked my origional solenoid against the battery and I heard it click. So I know that the solenoids are good, but I just can't get 2 little wires to work right.

daver

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RoyFokker &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">secondaries on gsr manifold works the opposite of you pic...

low rpms the arm is up and closes the secondary, 5800rpm the arm is down opening the valve, and when the car is off the arm is down.

electronicly this is how the ecu controls the secondary: upon starting car, ecu gives secondary 12v's to direct solenoid to force vacuum to move arm up closing valve.
at 5800rpm ecu takes away that 12v source, and arm moves down by strings and forces valves open.

Modified by RoyFokker at 12:44 PM 8/17/2003</TD></TR></TABLE>

there's some weird info on this thread. first this guy says that teh secondaries work the opposite as the above pic describes. Then he explains it exactly as the pic shows.

Incidentally, i fried my ecu a17 circuit by connecting the "other" wire the 12v. A17 used to give steady 12v at low rpms (at least) and could opent eh iabs with the other wire grounded (at low rpms anyway) , now it just gives a weak trickle voltage that won't do anything. obd1 usdm p72

So is this right or wrong - arm/plunger up = secondaries closed.....and arm/plunger down = secondaries open? The internet sucks for bad info my ecu...

d

Judah

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RoyFokker &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
if you have obd1 ecu you need to connect pink wire to a17 (ground switch) and yellow/black wire to 12v (12v source that is connect to ignition or simply tapping other yellow black wires) note: a17 pin on the ecu is short and sometime people dont connect the wires all the way... make sure it makes a nice connection.

for obd2 and jdm ecus you hook up the secondaries the opposite. meaning pink to the engine ground (any black or black/brown wire) source and black wire to a17 (12v swtiching at ecu).

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Oh damn!!!!!!
I just put a USDM P72 (replaced a JDM P72) in my car this morning so that I could get my car ref'd. I was wondering why the secondaries weren't working. I failed smog for hc at idle, I wonder if by doing this I caused a vacuum leak......

92 civic VX B18c

this should help
plenim


butterflies

runners

daver

so obviously that plunger is DOWN, while the secondaries are CLOSED.

EDIT -&gt; this is wrong, its the opposite.


Modified by daver at 2:00 AM 10/8/2003

stockegsix

^^^

daver

sheeesh, the butt dyno says the secondaries are open when the plunger is down. Maybe that picture has the spring disconnected or somthing.

Most people seem to say that when the car starts, the plunger goes up, closing them. Until 5750, when it goes back down to open them.

folks say that the secondaries default to open with no a17 input, which would see the plunger down.

butt dyno says screw the secondaries, frigged around with them enough for one lifetime. butt dyno says don't even need the lowend in a hatch. butt dyno says look forward to skunk2 mani.

butt

92 civic VX B18c

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by daver &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">sheeesh, the butt dyno says the secondaries are open when the plunger is down. Maybe that picture has the spring disconnected or somthing.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I took the pictures, the springs are not cut

stockegsix

Ive read here before that if you do not connect the IABs at all it will remain open, in my case when i first installed the motor i did not connect the iab, and notice the plunger arm was down, when i moved a270 to a17 gave it 12v, it was still down. after reading more and hearing more people say "obd1 needs ground" i decided to move the black wire to ground still the plunger is down.

daver

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 92 civic VX B18c &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I took the pictures, the springs are not cut</TD></TR></TABLE>

maybe i'll have to give the butt dyno another try, but somthing is weird here.

daver

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by zzZZzzleeperCX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ive read here before that if you do not connect the IABs at all it will remain open, in my case when i first installed the motor i did not connect the iab, and notice the plunger arm was down, when i moved a270 to a17 gave it 12v, it was still down. after reading more and hearing more people say "obd1 needs ground" i decided to move the black wire to ground still the plunger is down. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well. when i first connected my iab to a17 and ground, the plunger went up with ignition on, the plunger went up, but wouldn't move at 5750rpms. I measured a17 to be giving 12v strong. SO i tried connecting the other wire to 12v instead, against my better judgment. It didn't do anything at all, and the next time i measured a17, a while later, it only gave out a few weak volts. And now a17 won't lift the plunger, with the other wire grounded.

I'm not sure if i did somthing else wrong or not, but i'm convinced that i fried the circuit by running 12v up the other wire.

I do notice now that the voltage drops at about 5800rpms tho, from a17. Interesting. This is an obd1 ecu, on an obd1 engine win an obd1 car, and i don't believe anybody who says you need to hook the "other" wire up to 12 volts, unless some ecu's are different than others.

All those peeps who can't get their to work, try measuring the voltage put out by a17 and see if you get 12v when idling.

d

itr8

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by toolowsol &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thank you for your reply, much appreciated!

I have a JDM obd1 ecu, so does this mean I should have the black wire go to A17?

Also, i have hooked a multimeter to a17 and driven the car, it puts out 12V no matter what rpm, do you think my ecu is bad?

And lastly, I've tried directly connecting the power and ground wires to the AIB, but either way i have the power and ground, it does not release vacuum pressure so i'm thinking that must be bad as well, what do you think</TD></TR></TABLE>

I had the same problem. I would get constant power on A17 even after 5800rpm. I know for sure it wasnt my IABs because it works with my Autometer RPM switch and relay. Now it makes me thinks....perhaps I have a JDM P72 OBD1 ECU and that they might be different than the US version.

daver

my supposedly usdm p72 reads 12 volts out of a17. At least it did until i hooked power up to the other iab plug wire. Now somthing is screwed and it only reads a couple of volts out of a17.

itr8

Yep, burnt something inside the ECU. Your other alternative is using a RPM activated switch. I am selling one by the way. I used it on my GSR motor with P28 ECU.
You can email nwong8@yahoo.com


Modified by itr8 at 5:11 PM 10/8/2003

2lua

i have jdm ecu, and the iab is not working no mattter what i tried, but when i remove the vacuum tank and try it on my friend car that have the usdm ecu the unit work. try the all the things that RoyFokker post other than switch the wire at the ecu that mean i have to add this extra wire to the ecu. i gona try that tommorow.

daver

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by daver &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so obviously that plunger is DOWN, while the secondaries are CLOSED.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ok, my mistake, i misread that picture. It looked liket he valves were closed in that picture, but they are open.

When the plunger is down (default) the secondary valves ARE OPEN (hi rev).

When the plunger is up, the secondaries are closed.

I just went and verified this on my car. Using a light and a small mirror, you can peek in the throttle body (open it first) and you can see an open butterfly on the first runner, while the plunger is DOWN.

So the picture at the top of this thread is correct.

d