BoOoM

Alright,

So I got an F20b swap with LSD t2t4 TRANS in my EK hatch, with some goodies to the motor for pretty cheap. I'm wanting to hit 300hp maybe even 350 max. But I'd be straight with 300hp.

I've heard the debate about how an f22 would be better because of the lower compression and what not. But I like this engine and plan on keeping it. So don't tell me to "get an f22".

So 300+ horsepower achievable NA? What would cost more goin' turbo or goin NA? The turbo is appealing of course, but do to what I've heard about the compression, what does this mean that I won't gain as much HP from a turbo? Or I'm at higher risk of blowing the engine because it's already high compression?

And if I decided to go FI, what would be needed?

Thanks.

EJ8Bramaged

If what I've read is correct, with a ported and polished head, Skunk2 Pro 3 Series cams, SS Valves, Pro Springs/Ti Retainers, intake manifold & 70mm throttle body, intake/exhaust, chipped ECU the F20B will hit 277-285 HP w/ 185-195 ft/lbs. That's about oh.... $3200 for the proper equipment.

Good turbo setup, you can hit 325hp/190 ft/lbs with 10:1 pistons, head studs and intake manifold at 10lbs on a GT35... About $2500 with the proper parts

This isn't half assin' things either. I've done some research but still coming up short on some internal info for the F20B. I'm going NA for Road Racing, but I will always miss my turboed cars... "ah, back in the day...."

Korman

If you want 300 HP you're best off using some sort of forced induction. JUN once got 275 NA HP out of an H22, but that's JUN - they have money to burn. To get 325-350 HP, without forced induction would be on the brink of impossible, and if you pulled it off, the car would never be able to be driven on the streets (would use race fuel, would never pass emissions, would have no torque in the drivable range).

I would never tell you to get an F22. F20B's are the ****! Born and raised as a racing engine! The F20B has a far superior valvetrain (basically the same as a H22 Type-S) and revs like a madman.

Forced induction will either consist of a turbo system or a supercharger. If you get a supercharger you will have to remember that Honda engines, with the exception of S2000 engines and K-series spin backwards. This means you will need a rarer CCW-spinning supercharger. Also, superchargers generally cannot supply as much boost and have some drain on the engine because they are driven by the engine. Also, positive displacement superchargers raise intake temperature quite a bit which is counter-intuitive for high-compression boost.

Turbochargers have the potential to create more power and are generally what people go for with Honda engines. The CCW rotation of the engine has no effect on the turbo.

Because of your high compression ratio, you're probably limited to 7-9 PSI boost, which will give you somewhere between 275-325 HP dependent on tune, components used, turbo size, health of engine, other components/bolt-ons, etc. If you choose to change the internals of the engine and build it for boost, basically the sky is the limit.

The thing is tuning is the key. You can run more boost on a low compression engine, but every pound of boost you can run does more in a high compression engine because the energy extraction efficiency is greater.

If you want to simplify the process, get a good kit for a Prelude and you'll be set. Bring it to your local dyno shop and have them tune it for you. An F20B is basically a baby H22 with normal liners instead of FRM (which is a either a blessing or a curse depending on what you're doing).

Basically your compression ratio puts a upper limit on how much boost you can run before you start to have detonation, or knocking. This is when the flame kernel doesn't burn smoothly and predictably, but instead "pops" in random areas of the burn, creating shockwaves in random directions. As these shockwaves collide, this creates the "ping" sound you hear. This stress will destroy your engine. No ping, no problem - that is, as long as the stock components can handle the stress of creating more power.

So, get a turbo kit for an OBD2 H22, bolt it up, take it to a dyno shop (TOW IT, don't drive it), enjoy life.

So, long story short, mild boost works great on high-compression engines with a good tune. Lotus uses forced induction on the Exige S, which has a compression ratio of 11.5:1. You're fine.

BoOoM

Awesome! Thanks guys.

BoOoM

325hp would be pretty close to max? This would be my daily driver, I just want to be able to smash on v8s... I love those guys

But I guess what I'm askin is would this be stable? Does it all depend on the tune?

Korman

To a point, yes. Eventually you will hit a wall where you just *need* to lower compression to stop detonation. However, at that point you should be upgrading to forged internals anyway. Basically if it isn't knocking and the internals can take the power, you're good. Forced induction is pretty hit-or-miss.

And, yes, the tune is everything. Find someone who knows this **** like the back of their hand and you'll be good. Find someone who sucks and your engine will be very sad.

thundernoodle

you re not gonna get anywhere near 300 all motor. Turbo is the only way to hit those numbers unless you have an endless amount of money.

BoOoM

I've got money to blow. lol. Anyway. Any suggested setups/brand? I know of Greddy and that's about it. Are there any better ones? Or is greddy really worth the money?

judgeDredd

I have an F20b in my crx and also have a 300hp goal that i hope to achieve with 8lbs on the right turbo setup. the stock engine has really strong internals and is well built 'race engine'

BoOoM

Should I not consider forged internals for a while then?

judgeDredd

no one makes them so you would have to get custom stuff but the internals are strong stock and would probably hold low boost well with a tune i personally don't plan on getting forged stuff. if the motor blows on low boost due to internal failure ill buy another engine and try something else.

Ruckus2009

NA well ALWAYS be the best in the long run, and on top of that all the HP you well have would be there whenever you need it. No need to wait for the turbo.

judgeDredd

wait for a turbo these are Honda engines not v8. a vtec motor doesnt start moving until vtec hits and with the right turbo you will be spooled by then

gotbooost

T U R B O
no doubt.

Korman

Turbo>N/A. Greddy makes an H22 kit, but it isn't advertised on their site. They may have discontinued it. If you buy that kit, you will have to get your own intercooler - they are not supplied. Not a big problem though.

If all you want is 300-350, then you could go with a pretty compact turbo. On an engine like yours, that could be spooling good by 2,500, maybe 3000 RPM. Like judgeDredd said, that turbo is going to be fully contributing LONG before VTEC hits, especially on an F/H engine.

Contrary to popular belief, N/A tuning is actually less reliable than turbo tuning, HP-for-HP. The reason behind this is N/A tuning usually involves raising the redline. Now when you raise the redline, however much faster the engine is spinning is not a linear increase on internal stress, it is exponential. For example, an engine spinning at 8,000 RPM doesn't have 2x as much stress as an engine spinning at 4,000 RPM, it has 4x. So, if you have an engine that is spinning at 11,000 RPM instead of the redline of 8,000 RPM, you have the quantity stress raised to the 1.375 power.

Turbo stress in engines is much simpler because under ideal situations, it is a linear relationship. 400 HP has twice as much stress as 200 HP.

Finally, you will almost certainly run into your boost limit due to detonation long before your internals are at their limit. I mean, if a flimsy ecobox engine like a D-series can get 200 to the ground, an F20B will laugh at 300. Contrary to popular belief, H (and the derived F20B) engines are tough. They were Honda's performance engines, after all.

Korman

Oh, and remember, an EK hatch weighs a lot less than most of those oversized V8 powered cars you want to punish so much. You really can't compare it HP-for-HP. At 350 WHP you'll be able to accomplish what you want compared to most muscle cars you see on the road. Remember, the 5.0 Mustang Cobras only made between 235 and 240 HP depending on year. The SVT Cobra R's 5.8 L V8 only makes 280 HP, all at the crank (subtract 18% for drivetrain loss). So, assuming that you get all the supporting mods (clutch, flywheel, wheels, tires, suspension, etc) you'll be whomping on most of the vehicles you despise so much.

Can't blame you - I've yet to meet a Camaro or Firebird owner yet who wasn't a flaming douchebag

mickeyB

i have a ek hatch also... and currently bought a f20b, how can i reach 200 hp quickly and cheaply

JuggerNaut-CTR

Good job bumping a 2 1/2 year old thread and thread jacking______





To awnser your question....i/h/e & tune will do it for ya