Syndacate

I was reading the times in the B series forum, I'm looking to either swap out my engine or swap cars (to something with a B series in it)..I was thinking B16a2 or B18C1 but then when I looked at the time I found out that both of htem were slow as **** with I/H/E (run like 14's....)

The use is a daily driver, just as a preference I guess or something having to do with the expense factor, something causes me to want to go naturally aspired oppose to a turbo...Maybe it's just because I don't like it as it's a "2 part" package oppose to a N/A which is more tight "one part" package, I'm not sure at all, I suppose in the end I would be open to FI possibly...but rather go N/A I suppose..

It's a daily driver, I'm not looking to run it down to 10 seconds, but I want more snap than I currently have now - I mean don't get me wrong, for a 1.6L engine, the D16Z6 I currently have is fast, hell, it's faster than most 90's 2.0's so I'm going to take the vague assumption that it's putting down iono, 105 WHP (I know the 125 stat number is there..but that's at the flywheel and doesn't really mean ****), so I mean it's snappy and hauls some ***, especially for a 1.6L, but it's just not fast enough for me (I don't do any racing outside of street, I just want to make sure I'm able to beat ur standard stock car if they want to go)

I guess I'm trying to pull as fast as my GTI will go as cheap as possible N/A while staying under 2.0L -- On the flipside of that, the H22A's by far had the best times in that quater mile thread of B series engines on HT, if it's so damn good, why is so cheap from hmotorsonline? I'm pretty sure my GTI puts down 174 at the wheels, I'm not sure what it runs in 1/4 miles for 2 reasons (1. there's no speed traps around here, and 2. I don't want to run it w/ the speed governor in it (starts killing the throttle passed 80mph, by 100 mph u have about 15% of your original power, then it tops the car out at 140mph), the governor really ***** things up from a racing aspect, so I g2 switch the chip b4 I race that....

Yeah, in any event, so I'm thinking about either swapping the chassis/engine of my or just swapping the engine into this body (although I really like the size of the hatches so it might be hard to put another in a coupe, on teh badside, the short wheel base of the hatches make them easier to spin out)..

Yeah, so I'm looking for some advice here on which way to go, yes I've read the 10001 posts similiar to this that ask which is better B18C1 or a B16a2 and such but none of htem really apply to the opinion aspect of this as I need, most of them are just number comparisons, hp vs $..

Oh yeah, and this might seem very childish, but I'ma throw this part up there anyways...there's a guy around that has a 93 mustang GT (5.0L) AUTOMATIC, and he thinks it's the fastest **** since the concord was taken out of commission, he's running his mustnag with gas prices the way they are because he's a rich *** white boy and his parents pay his insurance and give him gas money (which is ******* pathetic on so many levels) and he is under the blatant assumption that all 4 bangers suck (which pisses me the hell off), so I wanna roast him very non-chalantly, not sure how much that stang is throwing down (I'd assume he's pulling a quater mile of high 12's low 13's, heard him bragging about it, but it could have been BS), I drove it a few times when we were almost friends, I definately think my GTI would blow the doors off that if I could swap out that nasty ECU governor...so yeah, he's on my to-do list also, wanna nail him to the wall w/ a 4 banger, my friend said if it'd come down to it he'd smoke him w/ his 100 shot Zex 25lbs, ITR hatch (the one where hte hood popped up on me, and I got them assload of tickets, I'm sure some of u know the story) (which I can't wait until is complete and he runs the 1/4 mile with that, I wanna see it) but he doesn't give a expletive about this guy so he doesn't (and probably won't) care to smoke him until he comes ranting to him saying he's going to own any of his civics, even though he said he'd do it in a B16 coupe w/ I/H/E, he's got better fish to try, in the mean time, everytime I say "okay, I'll even it out, meet ya down by cedar rapids (place along the delaware that has about 15 miles of STRAIGHT road, water on one side, no deer) against my boss's henessy viper? and he says hell no that's unfair etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. SO I have to nail him w/ a 4 banger, it's on my to-do list, him and that 93 **** box is on my list...

So with that childish rant asside any help besides "BUY AN ITR AND TURBOCHARGE IT AND CALL IT A DAY" (stupid **** like that) is thx, should i go Fi, (it just seems like more of a pain in the ***) or should I go above 2L, iono, any help is definately thx, remember, owning his 5.0 is just a perk, right now I'm just hoping to get togehter a setup for a daily driver which can haul some ***


Modified by Syndacate at 7:04 AM 5/23/2006

fmrprojects

there is no 10 sec daily driver thats a honda. good luck with your build. if you wanna do a 10 sec daily driver you are going to need to go turbo and make about 600+hp

PhatBoy5015

If you're so opposed to turbo, go with the H22. The reason its cheaper is because its not a direct bolt in like b-series.

sicones

in before the lock

I have experience with VW's and I think any civic with a B18 with beat your GTI, I never see any of them pull any good times at the track

friends car:
best time MK3 VR6 was 15.2
turbo MK3 2.0 running 20lbs of boost best time, 13.8 (a whopping 220hp on 20lbs this is just sad)
I've never seen a stock R32 break 13s

92 si hatch

Boy, for the ******* remarks you make to everybody else, I can't believe that you'd even post something like this. Your mister all mighty you should know the answere to all the ?'s you just asked. By the way my buddies non lsd gsr swaped hatch w/ shitty tires and horrible 60' was pulling a 14.23 @ 101.11. W/ slicks he'd prob. make it into 13 sec 1/4 mi . Its all in your set-up and how much your willing to spend. If your gonna do it do it write the first time. As for the ******* remarks I see you make to others. Don't rip on others, and when you have ?'s you won't be ripped on either. This is a place to ask ?'s and get answeres. Not be a dick.

Essenar83

I don't think you understand how fast "Just 14's is" and I don't think you realize the reason the B18C1 is so much more than the B16A.

The thing is, the power difference between the B18C1 and the B16A is very noticable. A B18C1 in a hatch with no bolt ons can break into 14's with street radials. A b16A hatch on the other hand needs street radials and full bolt ons to make it into 14's. The GSR power plant responds REALLY well to mods.

I've seen GSR hatches with bolt ons, ECU tuning and good tires make it into 13's. 13's is fast.

Honestly the H22 isn't THAT much more powerful than the B18C1, but I'll be honest with you, H22A responds more to non-aspirated mods than the GSR engine.

As far as why the H22A is cheaper, it's because it's an unorthodox swap, has a really crappy rod:sroke ratio and because a hatch with an H22A won't autocross for crap. Not to mention that with all the modifications, mounting kits and extras needed to drop the H22A in, it costs about the same as a full GSR swap shipped.

You can drive a GSR swap with bolt ons, tuning and some minor head work done, daily driven WITH A/C and power steering if you wanted. Keep a set of slicks in your trunk and you've got yourself a daily driven mid-low 13's car.

That's very fast.

Judging from your post, and don't take offense to it or I won't help you advice wise at all: You don't seem like the type of person that'd pay enough attention to a turbo build to maintain it properly, BUT if you were willing to go the extra yard, you CAN drive a daily driven 7 psi turbo-GSR build and you'd have a daily driven low 12's car (With minor tuning) and it's not as unreliable/hard to maintain as an all motor build.

Don't go H22A unless you already know how painful it is to swap and you're okay with it costing the same as a B18C1 swap, but not having power steering, A/C and basically ONLY being good for drag.

Syndacate

Yeah I'm osrry if I came off offensive with the "only 14 comments" -- I just thought the GSR's and Si's pulled better times w/ basic bolt ons, so I guess I had another thign coming, thx for the explanation, Essenar83, yeah, when explained like u did, I really don't understand (or didn't, take ur pick) the difference, I knew it was a couple grand, but I just didn't really understand the power diff.. The more I thought about it, the H22 seems like it would be awesome, but on the same plane it seems like it's one expletive of a big motor, and I Guess I want a smaller one..

and as per what fmrprojects said, Sorry if I came off w/ the wrong spin on that, I'm not looking for a 10 second daily driver w/ 600+hp, just lookin for something that will like, beat the average car when I'm havin a regular man **** fight while driving, "my engine's bigger than yours" -- I don't drag race at a track, so it's not like I'm really worried about times...just more of something that really shows tail lights when I pound on it..

Also, my GTI is a VR6, iono if that makes a difference to you or not but w/ my friend's (exact same model, but w/o the speed governor/regulator chip) I beat a GSR, not by far, but by like 2 car lengths, I mean I saw his whole front in my middle RV mirror, and I knew he had a major weight advantage, that's why I always thought civics were POS's, until I bought one, now I love them just mine isn't fast enough, it's fine for everyday driving but I need something faster, which is why I made this topic

and I'm not really "opposed to turbo" I just don't like....blah, iono, it seems like it's more problems than a naturally aspired motor, I only dealt with one turbo, EVER, and that was on my mitsu GSX, and that turbo came factory.....I always used to work with big block V8's, so when it came to FI, it wasn't turbo chargers, it was all super chargers and ram air, so I'm kinda scared of the whole turbo thing i guess, mostly b/c I don't want to deal /w a intercooler sititng low, makes ur car want to be stolen,b ut I'm not sure, if turbo is what it takes, turbo is what I"ll get

@92 si hatch: I don'tk now all the answers, I know little about hondas, very little, 'tis why I'm making this topic and asking for ADVICE instead of just taking my own thinkings and applying htem, but for ur "******* to others" part, I never knock on people for their questions, I'm one of those weird pple who believe that any question is okay, if you check any of those 'how do I change my oil threads' with like 100 responses u'll see I'm like one of the 5 that actually told people to stop messin w/ him as everybody was a newb at one point or another, iono, I tend to say a lot of **** I don't mean b/c I'm always tired, not to say it makes it right, but if I come off like an *******, only thing I can say is sorry, I'm really not trying to bash people, believe it or not..

at PhatBoy5015, yeah, I heard that the H22 requires some fabrication to fit properly, that's np, the pple I work with do crap like this all the time, but for some reason the H22 just seems like a monster of an engine....

I don't even know what I"m looking for I guess, that's why I'm turning to you guys, guess I'm looking for 13/14, like I said, I don't do track races, but I got a personal vendetta against this guy w/ the mustang, and I'm a fast driver, I just need a faster engine, the D16 is fast, but it just isn't doing it for me

So It seems there is a huge difference between the GSR and the 99si motors, from the responses + more research, which I knew, but I didn't know the difference was that much...guess the prob is I hear a GSR sets u back really far $$ wise oppose to a B16 which isn't as bad, and of course the really cheap one, the fastest, the H22, lol

So I guess I'm really confused when it comes to this decision, it all comes into play, A. I'm moving to rochster, NY in like 4 months, where I'm sure the crime rate is higher, so I don't want something w/ a big *** intercooler hanging out or flashy rims, that's why I like my friend's cars, he has a way of making hte hondas look so shitty but they're like rockets O.O, so I need speed, on the other hand I don't like the whole physical appearance deal, how it looks aesthetically doesn't mean a whole lot to mean, I rather be fast than look nice than vice versa

Any help is still appreciated

Syndacate

blah...bump*

thahuhstunna

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 92 si hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> W/ slicks he'd prob. make it into 13 sec 1/4 mi . </TD></TR></TABLE>
^^ you think slicks will shave more than 2 tenths right off the bat with your friends set-up??

Essenar83

You could shave off two 10ths with slicks+ suspension and minor weight reduction yea. I'd estimate dropping from a 14.1 to a reliable high 13's easily. Slicks help a LOT with your 60ft and not only the 60 but your launch too.

As far as what I said about the engines. Consider this, H22A isn't that much heavier than a B18C1, but the reason it's not used a lot is because the custom fabrication is a pain in the butt, and once you get down to it, the money you spend on axles, custom mounts etc, it costs the same as a B18C1 installed, but isn't THAT much more powerful as a base plant.

If you want to have daily power against the average driver, I strongly recommend GSR.

My friend had a 5.0 with bolt ons, straight pipe and good tires. He used to beat the **** out of almost every car he raced. He beat a 2000 Mustang GT back when they were new (Yea we're talking ancient history lol) and even whooped a lot of Civic SI's with mods.

One night some guy in a brand new 2001 GSR with dealership plates still on wanted to race, (He just turned 1000 miles on the engine) and my friend got him at launch and 1/8th easily, but he was about a car and a half behind. All I heard was "BWaaaaAAAH *chirp* BwwwaaaaAAAA" and the headlights started getting closer and closer, I was like WTF. Beat us in stock trim with 170 HP and a 2700 pound chassis.
Trust me, go with the GSR swap.

92 si hatch

every tenth you shave in the 60' you can figure about 2 tenths over all. Or so I've heard. We'll see though, he's picking up some slick's.

thahuhstunna

i was referring to just the slicks... over two-tenths?? doubt it... and about the H22 swap, it only costs a grip if you're not familiar with how to do it and have to pay somebody... very economical

Syndacate

Wow, sounds like hte GSR is the best motor by far...especially after that "kill story"

Thx for ur help, taht's probably what I'ma do, GSR w/ I/H/E (maybe exhaust, I'm moving to rochester NY and I'm not sure if the cops there are dicks or not) on the same token I got to free up air, allow that motor to breathe so it needs an exhaust, I'll probably visit that exhaust thread to get a aftermarket quiet exhaust, the N1's just too damn loud (at least on my D16....)

And wo is me and I just got smacked with a bunch of bills so now that money I was gonna do the swap w/ is going to have to go...so I"m ahave to hold off for awhile x 50,000

Thx for ur help all

thahuhstunna

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Syndacate &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wow, sounds like hte GSR is the best motor by far...especially after that "kill story" </TD></TR></TABLE>

no way... it's all about the H22

vtecspeed1320

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thahuhstunna &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">no way... it's all about the H22 </TD></TR></TABLE>
true true and more true...i would eat gsr swapped hatches up all day. I did my first ever honda swap from a d16z6 to the h22a...you wont be much happier...the first time you start that motor up...your lips will touch your ears from smiling so big.

thahuhstunna

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtecspeed1320 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">true true and more true...i would eat gsr swapped hatches up all day. I did my first ever honda swap from a d16z6 to the h22a...you wont be much happier...the first time you start that motor up...your lips will touch your ears from smiling so big.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Syndacate

ya Iono, I'm bouncing between the GSR and the H22, the only problem with the H22 (I Have NO problem w/ the custom fab WHAT-SO-EVER, taht's a cake walk for the pple I work with....) but I mean 2.2L, right? I mean that's a big fu8king engine, right? Seems like a monster, won't fit in properly, 2.2L, I mean it really seems like a big azz engine thing seems huge, so iono, the other downside to the H22 is parts are probably more expensive, no?

thahuhstunna

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Syndacate &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ya Iono, I'm bouncing between the GSR and the H22, the only problem with the H22 (I Have NO problem w/ the custom fab WHAT-SO-EVER, taht's a cake walk for the pple I work with....) but I mean 2.2L, right? I mean that's a big fu8king engine, right? Seems like a monster, won't fit in properly, 2.2L, I mean it really seems like a big azz engine thing seems huge, so iono, the other downside to the H22 is parts are probably more expensive, no?</TD></TR></TABLE>
^^ doesn't weigh much more than their B-series counterparts and no the parts generally aren't more expensive

v4lu3s

a 13.7 on street tires, with only an intake, exhaust and chipped ecu (not even tuned, jsut chipped).
the street tires were 215/40/17 Kumho 711s.
thats what a bone stock h22 an do in a civic hatch.

Syndacate

that's rediculously nice, I'm just lookin at things from a displacement perspective, I mean that's almost half a liter more than the GSR or Type R motor, right? I mean ****, that's 18% bigger in displacement alone, seems to me like the H22 will be cheaper to put in now, but will cost me more in the long run, while the GSR will cost me more now, but will be less in expenses in the long run, am I on the right track here, anybody wanna correct my thinking?

v4lu3s

i dont see how it would cost more or less in the long run. Maintenance is nearly identical on both engines. parts costs are so close i cant see a difference, though there is still a bit more variety in choices for the B series, but that didnt stop me from putting h22's into every car i own and selling my b swapped civic. the b18c civic was possibly the slowest car i owned.

thahuhstunna

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by v4lu3s &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i dont see how it would cost more or less in the long run. Maintenance is nearly identical on both engines. parts costs are so close i cant see a difference, though there is still a bit more variety in choices for the B series, but that didnt stop me from putting h22's into every car i own and selling my b swapped civic. the b18c civic was possibly the slowest car i owned.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Syndacate

Then I"m back to being lost again, if the H22's such a great motor over the B18's, then why aren't they more common, is it all because of the custom fab issue?

thahuhstunna

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Syndacate &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Then I"m back to being lost again, if the H22's such a great motor over the B18's, then why aren't they more common, is it all because of the custom fab issue?</TD></TR></TABLE>
^^ probably, although i didn't have much trouble with it, and with the introduction of the H2B into the marketplace, don't even see why that would be much of an issue anymore

Syndacate

H2B?

Blah, now I'm leaning back towards the B16..lol, my friend is selling his (low mileage '00 si motor) wiring harness (ODB2-ODB1 I believe), mounts, tranny, etc. for 4 grand, 3 for me, but that's still high for that motor IMO, I don't believe it puts out enough hp to be worth taht much..or maybe I'm wrong, either way, I rather just trade in my coupe EX for a hatch with a B16, or a GSR in it, I guess now it's preferably a B16 when you think about displacement oppose to the H22...iono, I guess I have to gather prices and such, find out what the best option for me is, b/c I just can't ******* stand this D16Z6, yeah, for ur everyday commuter it's a great ******* engine, but I can't stand it...it doesn't do the job