crazy idea
 

hello sir's!! im new in this forum and i want to ask you about your experience,

i got a crazy idea, i want to make a 2.0 (aprox) b16a engine...

using a b16a sleeved and bored to 84mm, b20 pistons and crank, and b17a connecting rods(if i can get ones)... i used a compression calculator and make a 13.17:1 and a 1972.87cc.. sounds grate, but, can be done? anyone done? i tried to find in the web something like this and i dont get any result's...

i think this because will be high RPM engine with a large displacement, i'm correct?? if im wrong please let me know

oh and please, dont insult me if im a little "LOST" in honda engines :cry:

thanks for reading!!! and thanking in advance for your response

best regards!

Re: crazy idea
 

No you cant use the b17 rods. If you wanted to do all that why not start with a b18/b20? And don't think you the first person that's going to have a 2.0l b16

Re: crazy idea
 

oh no, i dont think that, it's just using the b17a, why i cant use?? they are 132mm and low end its same size, and wrist pin i think they are too, 21 mm. im so new in this hybrid theme. sorry for my questions

Re: crazy idea
 

Uhh I don't believe the b17 rod and b20 rod are the same size.

You need to use matching crank and rods

Re: crazy idea
 

i found these in other sites, please take a read, and help me if that its correct or not please.

Good gawd people please read the articles here...soo many misconceptions in this thread already.. Please search and educate yourselves.

BTW the b18b rods are some of the strongest honda rods out there.

If you dont feel like searching.....

2b. Mixing and Matching Bores and Strokes

Some people try to get 1.9-2.0 L displacement from a B18 by mixing and matching with other B Series Honda parts.

I. General Rules To Remember

I'd like to thank my friend Tony who helped me sort out the "rules" for the various parts which can be mixed and matched.

a) Rule 1: Any B series Honda crankshaft will fit in any B series block (with minor machining or notching to allow for adequate clearances in some cases).

b) Rule 2: Any B series rod will fit any B series crank, EXCEPT the B18C's and B16B (CTR) { i.e. "R" family: ITR, GSR, CTR}.

The B18C1, B18C5, and B16B rod are 1.96-2 mm narrower (0.858 in. vs. 0.935 in. in non-R rods) at the crank end (or rod "big end") and will not fit on the other Honda B series cranks or pistons.

on the small end of the rod (from FF Squad):



Rod Small End Widths:

B18C1, B18C5 17.9 mm (0.705 in.)
B16A, B17A 18.0 mm (0.710 in.)
B18B 19.9 mm (0.785 in.)
B20A 23.7 mm (0.935 in.)

Here are the Strokes for each B Series Crank :

B16A and B16B............77.4 mm

B17A.....................81.4 mm

B18C1 and B18C5..........87.2 mm

B18 A/B and B20B/Z ......89.0 mm

B20A.....................95.0 mm

Remember, rod ratio is the connecting rod length divided by the stroke.

one way to get a higher rod ratio (i.e. get higher revving ability safely without sideloading the cylinder walls too much or getting more vibrations) is to reduce the stroke ( by swapping to a crank with a shorter stroke) .


The other way to get a high rod ratio is to use a longer rod. Three of the longest stock Honda rods are:

B18A/B or B20B/Z 137 mm

B18C's 137.9 mm


However, using a longer rod or increasing the stroke usually means you have to add deck height.

LS owners who were wondering which rods fits their crank without any machining needed? Answer: B16A, B17A, B20.

The B17a rod length is the shortest of the three at 132mm.

The B16a is next at 134mm and the B20 rod is 137 mm in length.

The longest B-series stock rod is from the B21A (early 90's Prelude) with a 141.7mm rod length.

c) Rule 3: Any B series piston will directly fit onto any B series rod without milling or machining , EXCEPT the B18C's and B16B {i.e. the "R family" of rods} .

The connecting rod bearing width on the B16A,B17A, B20B/Z, and B18A/B is apporoximately 19.5 mm. The connecting rod bearing width for the B18C1, B18C5, and B16B is approximately 17.5 mm (ca. 1.4-2mm narrower at the crank). The same narrower width happens at the small end of the rod. The B18C small end width is approx. 2mm narrower than the other Honda B series rods' small end width.

LS owners who want more compression, you can this from a B16A and B17A piston and it is a direct fit at the piston pin to your rod.If you want to put a narrower B18C piston onto your rod, you must mill 1 mm off each side of the rod at the small end to fit.

d) Rule 4: Block Deck Height

is the main reason you cannot go for a "drop-in only " longer rod or stroke. You can calculate whether your new rod length or stroke will exceed the deck height from these numbers:



Block Deck Height = (Stroke/2) + Rod Length + Compression Height + Stock Deck Clearance



B18A/B and B20B block deck height = 211.84 mm

B18C1 and B18C5 block deck height = 212.39 mm

B16A block deck height = 203.37 mm


Rule 5: OTHER USEFUL DIMENSIoNS TO KNOW AND USE ->

e) Piston to Deck Clearance


B18A/B, B18C1, B18C5, B20Z/B = 0.76-0.84 mm ( 0.030 -0.033 in.)

B16A/B = 0.5-0.9 mm (0.020-0.035 in.)




f) Piston Compression Height


B18A/B (PR4) 29.97 mm

B18C1 (P72AO) 30.05 mm


B18C5 (P73AO) 30.23 mm

B16A (PR3) 29.97 mm


B16B (PCT) 30.73 mm


B20B (P3F) 29.59 mm




g) Piston Dome Height


B18A/B (PR4) - 1.397 mm

B18C1 (P72AO) 0.00 mm


B18C5 (P73AO) + 1.78 mm

B16A (PR3) + 2.49 mm

B16B (PCT) + 6.43mm


B20B (P3F) - 0.89 mm


-------------------------------

Now that the rules are known, what can we do to mix and match to get 1.9-2.0L (i.e. more displacement for power)?

You cannot use a B16A or B16B crank to achieve 1.9-2.0L. Even if you bore out to 87 mm, the displacement is only 1840 cc.

This leaves us with the remaining cranks:

I. B17A Crank (IF you can find one)

You will need to bore out to at least 86 mm to get close to 1.9L (1891 cc). Boring to 87 mm (max.) will get you 1936 cc but reduces your reliability. Using a compatible, direct-fit LS B18A/B rod onto the B17A crank, the rod ratio will be a very good 1.68.

II. B18A/B or B20B/Z Crank

For the B18A/B block, you will need to bore out to at least 84 mm to get close to 2.0L. If you do not want to re-sleeve, then a bore of 82 mm will give you close to 1.9 L (1880 cc). Most people opt for 84.5-85 mm bore to get 2.0L (1996-2020 cc) . You can do this by boring and sleeving a stock LS block or honing a stock B20 block (stock bore is already 84 mm!!!) to 84.5 mm (cheapest way to go).The rod ratio remains stock with 137 mm long stock rods at 1.54. There is no advantage to using a B18C rod, since this only increases the rod ratio to 1.55 and you'd need to add 0.9 mm deck height.

III. B18C Crank

You will need to bore out to at least 85mm to get close to 2.0L (1979 cc) and 83-83.5 mm to get close to 1.9L (1887-1910 cc). You'll have to re-sleeve anyway, so you might as well go whole hog with 85 mm. The rod ratio remains at 1.58.

Tooken from MD's Swapping Engine Parts For Power..

Re: crazy idea
 

If you want 2.0L+ why not just do an H2b?

Re: crazy idea
 

what it's that???? :cry: i dunno!

Re: crazy idea
 

why dont you just sleeve and bore a b18?

Re: crazy idea
 

Thats what I tried to say. Op posted that long list of info he found but I did some searching last night and im almost positive the setup he posted will be far from just bolting in those parts, I also believe he would need custom pistons. I dont know why youd want to run a b16 block, b17 rods, b20 crank and rods. Why would you want to try and mix and match everything like that?

And OP an H2B is an H series motor with a B series transmission

Re: crazy idea
 

oh i see, look, here in chile its dificult to find a b18 or some else engine block.

look these thread its mine too, there you can see what i have, and its dificult to get some other parts! thanks for your atention

https://honda-tech.com/forums/showth...7#post47430397

Re: crazy idea
 

Do you plan on going turbo?

Its just a b16a. You should wait till you can get a hold of a b18/b20 block. If not and you decide to keep and use the b16, just sleeve it, get an OEM b16 crank, forged b16 rods, and pistons.

Re: crazy idea
 

what exactly would be the benefit overall?

are you trying to keep the rod stroke ratio of the B16? and even then
I don't know if you can just bore a b16 to a b20 or atleast I don't think you can?

Re: crazy idea
 

you can bore to 84mm with sleeves but it wont be 2L

Re: crazy idea
 

I miss match rods , cranks , and pistons all the time . Looks like the op is trying to get a decent size motor while uping his compression ratio to over 13.1 while using parts he has available to him . I see nothing wrong this I do it all the time you just have to do a little more research and checking then the normal bolt together motor . Go on zeal auto works calculator and punch in what you want to do . See what everything comes up to. My only concern would be how is the compression that high with little to no dome on the piston. If I had to guess using that long a rod on that stroke probably puts the piston out the top of the block a good bit . Head gasket compressed is .026" so I would say anything over .006" out the block is cutting it close . I run my pistons around .020 clearence with the head anything closer then that is pushing it if you ask me . Play with that calculator you will learn a lot but remember every motor is casted different the calculator is just a starting point .

Re: crazy idea
 

Thats the way to do it, at least I am doing it that way ;)

Re: crazy idea
 

someone on super street or import tuner has a 2.0 b16

Re: crazy idea
 

Didn't say its impossible. It just won't be a 2.0l w/ 84mm sleeves