Hybrid / Engine Swaps Discussions about non-stock engine swaps into Honda cars. This is not a forum for hybrid gas/electric cars.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

B16/B18 hybrid a.k.a. Poor Man's Type-R engine

 
Old 07-24-2018, 06:41 AM
  #1  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 100
Default B16/B18 hybrid a.k.a. Poor Man's Type-R engine

Anyone on here done one of these builds? I recently acquired a complete B16 swap for a very good price, only downside is the engine has knock. Previous owner thinks it's the rod bearing(s) but I haven't had the chance to open it up yet and inspect. Either way the bottom end will need to be replaced/rebuilt.

Doing some research, it seems like it's possible to bolt up Vtec block from GSR, with different pistons (to increase compression), ITR cams (or BC stage 2 cams), dual valve springs, and a mild port and polish to the B16 head (to match ITR setup) - which would net similar power levels to the ITR b18. Using the online compression calculator it looks like compression ratio of 10.8:1 should be fairly safe (running B18c block and crank, B16 head, USDM ITR pistons (P73), B18 connecting rod, and OEM head gasket). For comparison USDM ITR runs 10.6. It would be tuned with Hondata on 93oct.

So, couple of questions:
1. Would stock USDM B16 ECU be able to run this setup for about 50-100 miles under normal driving conditions (i.e. no hard pulls and taking it to redline)? My state requires emissions testing and it wouldn't pass with Hondata. The idea is to swap in stock ECU, O2 sensors, and cat, drive around to set readiness, pass emissions, then put Hondata back. Does that seem realistic?
2. Could I run a slightly higher compression ratio, something like 11.2 safely on 93 octane without any knock? Reliability and longevity of the engine is the main priority as this car will be used for track and very likely time trials, so I'm not after getting every bit of power out of it.
3. Is 190-200whp a realistic expectation?

Sorry for the long post and thanks in advance.
SonicC is offline  
Old 07-24-2018, 10:04 PM
  #2  
Honda-Tech Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: The South - Roll Tide !!!
Posts: 3,437
Default Re: B16/B18 hybrid a.k.a. Poor Man's Type-R engine

Originally Posted by SonicC View Post
Anyone on here done one of these builds? I recently acquired a complete B16 swap for a very good price, only downside is the engine has knock. Previous owner thinks it's the rod bearing(s) but I haven't had the chance to open it up yet and inspect. Either way the bottom end will need to be replaced/rebuilt.

Doing some research, it seems like it's possible to bolt up Vtec block from GSR, with different pistons (to increase compression), ITR cams (or BC stage 2 cams), dual valve springs, and a mild port and polish to the B16 head (to match ITR setup) - which would net similar power levels to the ITR b18. Using the online compression calculator it looks like compression ratio of 10.8:1 should be fairly safe (running B18c block and crank, B16 head, USDM ITR pistons (P73), B18 connecting rod (You MUST use a GSR/ITR connecting rod, as in B18C1/5), and OEM head gasket). For comparison USDM ITR runs 10.6. It would be tuned with Hondata on 93oct.

So, couple of questions:
1. Would stock USDM B16 ECU be able to run this setup for about 50-100 miles under normal driving conditions (i.e. no hard pulls and taking it to redline)? My state requires emissions testing and it wouldn't pass with Hondata. The idea is to swap in stock ECU, O2 sensors, and cat, drive around to set readiness, pass emissions, then put Hondata back. Does that seem realistic?

It likely wouldn't pass emissions with the B16A ECU... you would probably be better off trying to use an ITR (P73) ECU to get the car tested.

2. Could I run a slightly higher compression ratio, something like 11.2 safely on 93 octane without any knock? Reliability and longevity of the engine is the main priority as this car will be used for track and very likely time trials, so I'm not after getting every bit of power out of it. A good tuner can make that happen.
3. Is 190-200whp a realistic expectation? Depending on the dyno... yes, realistic.

Sorry for the long post and thanks in advance.
JRCivic1 is offline  
Old 07-25-2018, 03:22 AM
  #3  
2x0
Honda-Tech Member
 
2x0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Rochester, MN
Posts: 1,927
Default Re: B16/B18 hybrid a.k.a. Poor Man's Type-R engine

This is the same setup I am running currently, except with GSR cams instead of ITR.

I agree with JR, it probably will need a basemap/ecu from a GSR or ITR to run decently.
2x0 is offline  
Old 07-25-2018, 05:17 AM
  #4  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 100
Default Re: B16/B18 hybrid a.k.a. Poor Man's Type-R engine

JRCivic1
I did mean to write B18c connecting rod, I figured non-vtec b18 rod wouldn't work anyway. Didn't even think of running ITR ECU...I'll have to see if it's even possible to hunt down one of those. Per post below, maybe GSR ECU would work as well?

Thanks for the info!

Originally Posted by 2x0 View Post
This is the same setup I am running currently, except with GSR cams instead of ITR.

I agree with JR, it probably will need a basemap/ecu from a GSR or ITR to run decently.
How do you like your setup and how is it with GSR cams? What ECU/tune are you running?
SonicC is offline  
Old 07-25-2018, 05:55 AM
  #5  
2x0
Honda-Tech Member
 
2x0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Rochester, MN
Posts: 1,927
Default Re: B16/B18 hybrid a.k.a. Poor Man's Type-R engine

Originally Posted by SonicC View Post
How do you like your setup and how is it with GSR cams? What ECU/tune are you running?
I probably can't give you an accurate review since I have only had the setup with turbo. But it feels great even when not in boost. Has been very reliable.

I'm running Hondata S300 v3 on a P28.
2x0 is offline  
Old 07-25-2018, 07:41 PM
  #6  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 100
Default Re: B16/B18 hybrid a.k.a. Poor Man's Type-R engine

Thanks for the info, man. I tried to find some people locally who may have done similar builds, but it seems all the hybrid builds are LS/Vtec
SonicC is offline  
Old 07-26-2018, 02:21 AM
  #7  
O.G. triple O.G.
 
NVturbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: CHARLOTTE
Posts: 4,820
Default Re: B16/B18 hybrid a.k.a. Poor Man's Type-R engine

It's 2018. This swap has been done 10 million times since the early 2000s.
NVturbo is offline  
Old 07-26-2018, 03:46 AM
  #8  
2x0
Honda-Tech Member
 
2x0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Rochester, MN
Posts: 1,927
Default Re: B16/B18 hybrid a.k.a. Poor Man's Type-R engine

Originally Posted by NVturbo View Post
It's 2018. This swap has been done 10 million times since the early 2000s.
It seems like it was pretty popular 10-15 years ago but has tapered off since. It is hard to find much info on them more current than 2010.

And technically you were supposed to use type R internals to call it a true "poor man's type R" but whatevs
2x0 is offline  
Old 07-26-2018, 04:24 AM
  #9  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 100
Default Re: B16/B18 hybrid a.k.a. Poor Man's Type-R engine

Originally Posted by NVturbo View Post
It's 2018. This swap has been done 10 million times since the early 2000s.
Yes?
Have you done it?

Originally Posted by 2x0 View Post
And technically you were supposed to use type R internals to call it a true "poor man's type R" but whatevs
As long as it makes good power
SonicC is offline  
 
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
mugen4door
All Motor / Naturally Aspirated
4
08-20-2013 01:48 PM
ARNewB
Honda Civic / Del Sol (1992 - 2000)
5
08-18-2013 03:26 PM
Scott479
Honda CRX / EF Civic (1988 - 1991)
8
04-19-2012 06:25 AM
queensny
Honda Civic / Del Sol (1992 - 2000)
9
10-06-2009 07:11 PM
KOREAN
General Discussion and Debate
6
02-03-2006 01:21 PM


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: B16/B18 hybrid a.k.a. Poor Man's Type-R engine


Contact Us - About Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: