ChrisSRT

Has anybody put a 3 stage VTEC D15B into a 96+ car and got the VTEC to work right? I've got a '97 HX that needs another rebuilt and I want to keep the mpg's but alittle extra hp would be nice.

2fastGSR

3 stage vtec huh . . . .

ChrisSRT

some call it 2 stage due to the 2 VTEC solenoids.

2fastGSR

2 Stage Vtec huh . . . . .

kleen98accord

iTrader: (1)

haha

toyomatt84

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ChrisSRT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">some call it 2 stage due to the 2 VTEC solenoids. </TD></TR></TABLE>

It's a single over head cam engine, you can only get 2 sets of lobes on that one cam. There's no stage to it, just "during VTEC" and not "during VTEC". So, to answer your question briefly, no you cannot add a "3 stage VTEC" to your engine. And, based on your description, adding another "stage" would prove no benefit.

ChrisSRT

Honda produced a D15B engine from 96-00 for the Asian market that does operate as a 3 stage VTEC. At low RPM it operates like a VTEC-E and at high RPM it operates like a normal VTEC. Its an ORB 2 engine with 130 hp and fuel economy. Try checking out the EK3 Civic Ferio Vi and Civic VTi, its easy to find info on the car. The engine is not that hard to come by, the ECU (P2J) is a little hard to find. I trying to find someone who has managed to make it all work right.

thehatchninja

If I'm correct it's an HX type head with an extra lobe. The HX doesn't have a VTEC lobe, only the small, almost nonexistent lobe, and a regular lobe. When VTEC-E happens it just runs off of the regular lobe, on a 3-stage it does that, but when VTEC comes on it switches to the more standard (z6, y8) style lobe.

The motor does indeed have 3 different profiles on the intake side.

To make it work get a chipped p28 that has an option for intake secondaries, like a GSR or H22/23. You'll have to disable the VTEC pressure switch on one of the VTEC solenoids. Also you'll HAVE to have it tune to make it run correctly, there will not be a blind basemap that will work.

Finding the P2J ecu, and making it work wouldn't be worth the time IMO. You would need a pinout to figure out where the second VTEC wires go on the ECU, once you do that it would be just like wiring VTEC to a non-VTEC car.

ChrisSRT

thanks, I knew someone on here had to have some knowledge.

2fastGSR

If you need an ECU that operates secondary butterflies like the GSR and H ecus - a simple chipped p28 will not work . You have to add the circuitry to the p28 to get it to operate them, a basemap change can not make it work circuitry it doesnt have to begin with. p72 would prob be a good start but hard to find. Its also not that hard to add the circuitry to the p28 for what you need.

I am man enough to admit when i am wrong- little "googling" came across this. I'll take my foot out of my mouth now


Examine the SOHC VTEC and SOHC VTEC-E implementations. The clever Honda engineers saw that it is a logical step to merge the two implementations into one. This is in essence the 3-stage VTEC implementation. 3-stage VTEC is implemented on the D15B 1.5l SOHC engine in which the VTEC-E mechanism is combined with the power VTEC mechanism.

Many of us probably has laughed at the poor ignorant layman who said "I want power AND economy from my Honda". We know of course that power and economy are mutually exclusive implementations. Honda decided not to abide by this rule. Now, with 3-stage VTEC, we get BOTH power and economy !.

The diagram below illustrates the 3-stage VTEC implementation. The intake rocker arms have two VTEC pin actuation mechanisms. The VTEC-E actuation assembly is located above the camshaft while the VTEC (power) actuation assembly is the standard wild-cam lobe and rocker assembly.

Below 2500rpm and with gentle accelerator pressure, neither pin gets actuated. The engine operates in 12V mode with very good fuel combustion efficiency. When the right foot gets more urgent and/or above 2500rpm, the upper pin gets actuated. This is the VTEC-E mechanism at work and the engine effectively enters into the '2nd stage'. Now D15B 3-stage works in 16V mode (both intake valves works from the same mild cam-lobe).

Stage 2 operates from around 2500rpm to 6000rpm. When the rpm exceeds 6000rpm, the VTEC mechanism activates the wild cam-lobe pushing the engine into the '3rd stage', the power stage. Now the engine gives us the full benefit of its 130ps potential !

The 3-stage VTEC D15B engine is used on the current EK-series JDM Civic/Civic Ferio VTi/Vi together with Honda's new Multimatic CVT transmission. Stage-1 12V or "lean-burn" operation mode is indicated to the driver by an LED on the dashboard. The 2500rpm cutover from lean-burn to normal 16V operation in fact varies according to load and driver requirements. With gentle driving, lean-burn can operate up to 3000rpm or higher. Stage-3 may not always be activated. The Multimatic transmission has a selector for Economy, Drive, and Sports mode. In Economy mode for eg, the ECU operates with a max rpm of around 4800rpm even at Wide-Open-Throttle positions.

The essence of 3-stage VTEC is power AND economy implemented on a 1.5l SOHC PGM-Fi engine. Many people mistakes 3-stage VTEC as a "superior" evolution of the power oriented DOHC VTEC implementation, describing DOHC VTEC as "the older 2-stage VTEC" and implying an inferior relationship. This is totally wrong because DOHC VTEC is tuned purely for high specific output and sports/racing requirements. 3-stage VTEC is in truth an evolution of SOHC VTEC and VTEC-E, merging the two implementations into one.

thehatchninja

I know those CVT transmissions are problematic, but I did an engine replacement on one, and we used a GX head (which has a little more aggressive cam) and the power delivery was very cool. It actually felt fast.

redb16coupe

i have the d15b 3 stage in my 97 coupe im running the low rpm vtec to a msd window switch and it opens at 2800rpm and the wild cam vtec at 5200 off of the p28 i still havent chipped it but has proven to be a very impressive motor