ihatesilver

general FYI for something i have not seen mentioned anywhere yet:

my fuel rail off the b18b cannot accept the fuel line that runs from the fuel filter to the rail. my fuel rail off the d16y8 cannot fit onto the b18b intake mani/head. i assume i need a fuel line off an integra. also the return line is too short, but it is generic fuel line.

Katman

that assumption is what I was going to suggest you do next.

ihatesilver

my distro wires don't line up with this diagram.

off my obd2 (dseries) dizzy -> no green, red, dark blue, instead i have orange/blue and white and blue. oh and i only have 8 wires.
off my obd2 (bseries) dizzy -> no green, instead i have orange and blue.

now i suspect this diagram references the wires between obd1 and obd2 b series dizzys. so i'm not surprised that it doesn't line up of course.

any idea what's going on here? i can't simply color match because there are differences in color between the two.

what i'd like to do is shown in post 159 in this thread https://honda-tech.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=159 but without matching colors i'm at a loss.

ihatesilver

"For whatever reasons, Honda switched to a smaller style dizzy plug on all 99-00 SOHC civic's. This plug has to be changed if you plan to reuse your SOHC EWH on the OBD1 engine. You'll need a 99-00 Si dizzy plug or a 96-98 dizzy plug that you'll need to depin and mate to your 99-00 CX/DX EWH." will this smaller style plug work on any obd1 or obd2 b series disty?

Katman

Yes it will plug n play as long as you have a 96-98 EX harness. 99-00 EX harnesses have the smaller dizzy plug which isn't compatible with OBD2 B-series dizzy's - the 99-00 civic (excluding Si) EWH side dizzy plug needs to be changed to that of a 96-00 integra/96-98 civic/ or 99-00 Si 'big' dizzy plug.

Any 96-01 B-series non-VTEC dizzy will work for your specific B18B engine swap.

And yes, D or B-series OBD2 dizzy's work fine with an OBD1 ecu conversion. No problems with that.

ihatesilver

ok so i really want to use my obd1 b series disty and my 00 ex engine wiring harness. why? because the disty plugs into it perfectly.

to do this, i need to figure out what the wires are, and match them up. the digram above doesn't apply, but there must be some way to look up what the wires are and what they do. and them match them up. maybe a shop manual or something?

anyway here are the wires and what color they are, they are written in order of where they plug in on the connector: meaning, when i plug in the EWH to the d disty, blue plugs into blue, red plugs into white/blue etc. similarly, when i plug the EWH into the b disty, blue/green plugs into blue, yellow plugs into yellow and so on

OBD1 b series disty plug --------00 ex engine wiring harness---------------obd2b d series disty plug

blue/green------blue--------blue
yel/green-------yel/green---yel/green
pink*/blue------green-------pink/blue
yellow----------yellow------yellow (orange? tough to tell)
white/blue------red---------white/blue
blue/yellow-----white-------white
***blank**----black/yel----black/yell
white----------black--------black

OD1 2nd harness
light blue
black/yel


seriously guys i need help to figure this out, i am not a mechanic

Katman

You do bring up a good point about the 99-00 civic dizzy wiring.
Here's an updated OBD1-2 dizzy conversion table that includes the 99-00 SOHC civic dizzy:

ihatesilver

it's close, but something's still confusing me and will take more research. the diagram you have there has no black/yellow, for instance. i think i downloaded a shop manual for the civic some time ago. i'll check in there.

what's going to happen if i experiment, could i damage the motor by getting it wrong?

Katman

Check out my post above, it contains an updated conversion table.

You will need to add the RPM lead signal (tach wires) manually because 99-00 SOHC Civics tachs are controlled directly from the ecu and not through the dizzy. Personally, I haven't had to deal with this, but I believe you need to wire directly to your jumper harness converter right at the tach signal pinouts.
If I'm wrong, other wiring guru's please chime in!

I would follow my diagram when wiring your dizzy and you shouldn't run into wiring problems (besides the tach signal wires). The vehicle should start but you won't have a working tach if you decide not to wire in the tach wires right away.

Let us know what happens! I'm curious....

ihatesilver

pretty sure this is the one i was looking for. CivicSpoon was kind enough to post it up for me in the civic forum so a huge thank you goes out to him.

now...the wires finally actually match for me, will post results when i actually start the car. the bottom line is that by matching them up based on position within the plug, and not by color, is the correct approach. the diagram also illustrates that the mystery black/yellow wire takes the blank spot on the smaller dizzy plug found on the 99/00 wiring harness. the diagram also illustrates the difference between the big and small plug found on 97/98 amd 99/00 EWH. as you can see, the earlier ek plug will fit with an obd2 teg dizzy plug, while the later ek plug will fit with an obd1 dizz plug. phew! this is all starting to make sense!

also, on another note, it looks like i can avoid using an integra fuel line by unbolting the end of the fuel rail with a 23mm wrench and putting my existing banjo fitting in there. i'll use my dial caliper to double check before i bolt it back together, but the exterior diameter and width are the same, so i expect it to be the same piece.

Katman

Thats a nice diagram from CivicSpoon.
I realized the plug pin location is also important as well as wire color..heh...will add this info to my diagram (giving props as well).

About your fuel line...
Make sure that you have the washers setup correctly when running your fuel line from the filter to the rail. There's 2 washers that fit on either side of the banjo fitting and they are different sizes. Make sure the bigger washer goes in between the banjo fitting and the rail cap; the smaller washer goes between the banjo and fuel rail. If these get switched around your car won't start because the smaller washer gets crushed inside the fuel rail end cap blocking fuel flowage.

ihatesilver

ok so....

IT RUNS.

actually it runs and throws no codes on both the obd1 and obd2 ecm. starts awesome but it idles really poorly. like at 2300 rpm with a huge hiccup every 5 seconds. I suspect vacuum leak because it doesn't change idle if you pull off a vacuum hose while it's running. but i can't find one! i'll look harder though, just needed a break from this project. oh and btw it will throw a code if i disconnect plugs while it's running etc.

some notes and quick questions:
notes:
-the d-series fuel line would not fit until i rotated it 180 degrees and bent one of the tabs on the fuel filter. then it works perfectly.
-the fuel return line is too short, you have to get another one (no biggie)
-the diagram pointing out pin locations from civic spoon worked perfectly
-BONUS - without hooking up the blue wire from my obd1 disty, i still have a functioning tach. i don't know how this happened, but i am not complaining.

questions:
1-i didn't do any 3-2wire conversion for IAT. do i need to do this still?
2-i reused the sensor installed in my intake tube from my d and just plugged it back into the ewh. is this ok? what is this sensor for?
3-is there a diagram that i can find to figure out which sensor is which? on both engines actually. cause i don't know the difference between them lol. which is the MAP, which is IAT etc etc.

anyway! happy days!! thanks all!

Katman

You do not need to perform any 3-2wire IAT swap - did you mean IACV?

If so, you only need to perform the IACV mod if you're reusing a non-VTEC civic engine harness. If you're using a 5spd SOHC VTEC EX harness then there's no need to perform the IACV mod.

As for your weird idling, did you bleed your cooling system? trapped air in the cooling system can affect idle..

ihatesilver

ok so i tightened up the ground near the thermostat, and cleaned out the fitv as per the directions here. https://honda-tech.com/forums/acura-integra-6/%2A%2A%2A-how-%2A%2A%2A-clean-your-fitv-aka-fast-idle-thermo-valve-1564019/. not sure which cured it, or both but whatever. there is a great article about idle issues here: http://www.team-integra.net/forum/di...g+Common+Topic

idles fine now!

just gotta re-install the shift pin and take it for a spin. i am a little concerned that my rad fan isn't coming on, the coolant doesn't seem to want to bleed and the car doesn't seem to be throwing heat in the interior.

couple comments: firstly, the sensor in the intake tube is the iat. the d series sensor seems to work. secondly, you're right about the iacv, and the wiring diagram in the manual confirms it. no mod necessary (in my case)

i have just teed off the vacuum line coming from the throttle body on the top front of the intake mani right by the tps. pulling this vacuum line off the car while it's running changes nothing. so not sure what's going on there? something tells me i'm going to get shitty mileage until i sort that out. (just a hunch). any thoughts?

ihatesilver

dang it. it idles good. revs up at idle no problem. throws no codes. but when actually driving the car, it can't get over 1500-2000 rpm or so. if i rev it up and dump the clutch, once i clear about 3000 rpm it goes ok. is this 'limp mode'? wouldn't that throw a code?

swapped the map and tps plugs, hoping i had got them wrong but i don't think so. it sort of idles if i do that but can't rev at all etc.

if i unplug a sensor, it throws a code. so i don't think that it's just not showing them to me but that they're there.

if i stick the d series ecm into the car, it runs, throws codes, but does the same thing. can't get any rpm.

Katman

If you were in Limp mode, you would have a CEL.
You're experiencing something else.

Perhaps your distributor is to blame. If you still have access to your SOHC distributor, try swapping the ignitor over to your B-series dizzy as well as the coil (or do one at a time to single out either of them being the problem). Whenever you have a bad ignitor or coil, there's usually no CEL for this kind of problem.

Other things that come to mine..
- cam/crank timing (check to see if your cam and crank are properly aligned when set at TDC)
- Loose ECU plugs
- sensors have crossed plugs (such as the TPS and MAP sensor which use the same style plug - but I think you have this one figured out already) / IACV and EVAP solenoid plugs possibly crossed. ECT and VTPS plugs crossed.
- ECU - are you running an OBD2 to OBD1 jumper harness and OBD1 LS B18B ecu?

ihatesilver

i do suspect the distributor as well. i am not sure how to swap these parts, but i do still have the y8 dizzy. edit-after inspectng the b dizzy, the cap and rotor appear to be slightly corroded. i will replace them next. also, i can drive halfway around the block and seems fine before it starts being unable to rev. not sure if this is a clue?

-timing *should* be ok. the car i pulled the motor from was running prior to this. mind you i didn't drive it but still. i will check them after trying the dizzy cap/rotor.
-i'll double check the plugs (more like octo-check )
-yup jumper harness with p75 obd1 ecu. it was running the car when i picked up the swap.

Katman

I wonder if the jumper harness converter is faulty. Have you tried it in another car by chance?

Nah, if you removed the crank pulley but left the cams/timing belt/and timing belt tensioner alone, you didin't bump the timing out of place.

Swapping the ignitor and coild is easy as 123. The coil is the easiest, just take a look at it, memorize how it looks, and swap in teh Y8 coil. Same thing with the ignitor, but you might wanna draw a little diagram of which wire color goes to which connector on the ignitor; but usually the wires are bent in a certain way that when you replace the ignitor the wires are already in position of where they're suppose to go on the ignitors connectors.

here's a hard to see diagram of an OBD1 ignitor:

ihatesilver

bought and changed cap/rotor. no difference. $50. awesome. on friday i'll try the coil and ignitor.

i find the jumper harness not a strong candidate to be causing the problem because it has the same issue running on the d ecm. the harness is from streetlightz or some **** off ebay.

looked hard for a vacuum leak couldn't find one.

riddle me this, why does it make it halfway around the block before the problem starts? i think that's a clue but haven't figured it out what it means yet. maybe an evap issue? i haven't re-installed the big black canister near the battery. on friday i'll try driving it when it isn't warm and see if it takes longer for this issue to appear. *shrug*

oh, and the valve cover gasket is puking oil into the spark plug holes. awesome.

Katman

So you're saying that when you completely switch back to OBD2 and run your stock D16Y8 ECU on the B18B, the early redline problem still exists?

The charcoal canister and evap smog junk won't cause your car to early redline.

I'd do the ignitor/coil troubleshooting next if i were you.

I forgot to reply back about your question on T'ing off the vacuum lines. You kinda lost me in the description of how you T'd off the vacuum lines. Can you take a couple of clear photos to help better explain? I'm wondering if you capped off the fuel pressure regulator vaccum line by accident.

ihatesilver

yep that's what i'm saying. swapping ecm leaves me with the same problem, you can feel it.

btw, it's not that it's redlining, it just stumbles and floods or starves or shitty spark or something and can't get over that hump at about 1800 or so rpm when it's under load. when it's not in gear and driving, it will rev freely. i don't think it's an evap thing either, but i am trying to absolutely eliminate as many things as possible lol.

i definitely did not t off the vacuum line for the fuel pressure regulator. i'll snap a picture tomorrow of what i did do. (the car is in my parent's garage, so i'm not always there.)

Katman

Ok, that helps knowing this problem is carried over from your SOHC engine. This can narrow it down to either being a wiring issue or a fuel system problem.

Fuel - could be an old *** fuel filter and/or fuel pump is on its way out
Wiring - bad grounds/not enough grounds/engine harness is faulty somewhere/a shot in the dark here but possibly the weird 3-wire alternator can be affecting performance...

I wouldn't bother with the igniter and coil now that you've shed light on this problem carrying over from your D16Y8 engine.

ihatesilver

no no, i guess i am not being clear. the y8 ran just fine. (and then i had to go and rip it out) this problem is not something i was experiencing before hand. what i mean is that if i hook up the d ecm to the b engine, it has the same problem, can't drive over 1800 rpm.

that is a known good ecm mind you it is for a d series but it does let the ob1 b engine run. terribly, of course, but it does. that's why i don't think it's the conversion harness.



edit-so, just an fyi for anyone reading this thread, an obd1 b18b will start and run with a 2000 ex wiring harness and ecm, but it would be totally undriveable.

Katman

bah ok..
well swapping out the igniter and coil suggestion gets reinstated

ihatesilver

-swapped igniter, coil, cap, rotor (cant get plugs or wires due to easter). no change.
-swapped thermoswitch, and thermostat which was bad and re-bled the system. no change.

the car runs fine for about 1/2 a block or a block. then i can't rev over 1800 to 2000 rpm.

i thought it was starving for fuel so i let it return to idle to try to buld some more pressure but that did nothing.

then i realized that if i shut the car off, then restart it immediately, it will be fine again for a while. meaning, if it starts acting up, turning the key off then on again allows it to drive for another 30 seconds or minute. (keep in mind the car will idle fine indefinitely). i don't even have to come to a complete stop, that's how fast we are talking between 'fine' and 'not fine'

today i'm going to test and clean the tps, the iacv, swap injectors etc. tomorrow i'm going to replace plugs, wires and main relay. suggestions are welcome.

**update:
tested every sensor i could today, all were within spec
tps - 5v from ecm. signal voltage ranges smoothly from .5 to 4.5v as you open the throttle.
map - 5v from ecm. vacuum needed to test it further, not sure how to do this (the vacuum nipple directly beside the map is the one that i have nothing going to)
iat - 5v from ecm. @roughly 40f 4.5 ohm @ roughly 70f 2ohm
ect - 5v from ecm @roughly 40f 4.5 ohm
iacv - 12v from ecm, clicks with voltage applied, cleaned and unplugging it causes car to nearly stall out.
fitv - vacuum when car is cold, none or very very little when car is warmed up

disty
ckp 350 ohm
tdc 350 ohm
cyp 350 ohm

cleaned all 3 grounds 1-valve cover 2-tranny 3-next to thermostat housing
there should be no more grounds than this right?

confirmed cel is working by disconnecting iacv, then checking codes. came back 10. so that's fine too.

the underside of my underhood fuse box has no ELD but the electrical plugs were all covered in this gooey stuff.


tomorrow when stores open again i'll buy and install a main relay.