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Is the 2017 Honda Civic Hatchback a True Sports Car?

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Is the 2017 Honda Civic Hatchback a True Sports Car?

 
Old 04-25-2017, 09:29 AM
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Default Re: Is the 2017 Honda Civic Hatchback a True Sports Car?

This is a sports car:



This is not a sports car, even though it makes a ton more power and has "sporty" bits on it:



Moreover, the author of the original video is probably a clueless millennial and has no concept of what a true sports car is (like others on here, it seems).
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Old 04-25-2017, 09:37 AM
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Default Re: Is the 2017 Honda Civic Hatchback a True Sports Car?

The better question is who gives a sh*t? When it comes to cars what relevance does the category it is called matter when speaking of it's performance? The title of "sports car" is near meaningless when it simply describes a bunch of physical features with no regard to performance, feel or fun. It is a worthless name and anyone that attempts to group cars from decades past into said group based on near meaningless features when they don't compare in the slightest in terms of performance, feel or function is a fvcking idiot.
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Old 04-25-2017, 09:42 AM
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Default Re: Is the 2017 Honda Civic Hatchback a True Sports Car?

Originally Posted by ActiveAero View Post
The better question is who gives a sh*t? When it comes to cars what relevance does the category it is called matter when speaking of it's performance? The title of "sports car" is near meaningless when it simply describes a bunch of physical features with no regard to performance, feel or fun. It is a worthless name and anyone that attempts to group cars from decades past into said group based on near meaningless features when they don't compare in the slightest in terms of performance, feel or function is a fvcking idiot.
Like "Muscle Car"
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Old 04-25-2017, 09:45 AM
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Default Re: Is the 2017 Honda Civic Hatchback a True Sports Car?

I've got to agree with Todd on this one

also anyone who bashes the Miata has either never driven one or is so insecure with their masculinity they must have a loud v8
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Old 04-25-2017, 09:46 AM
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Default Re: Is the 2017 Honda Civic Hatchback a True Sports Car?

Originally Posted by Todd00 View Post



Moreover, the author of the original video is probably a clueless millennial and has no concept of what a true sports car is (like others on here, it seems).
I wish the writers for the front page would all go away.
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Old 04-25-2017, 09:50 AM
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Default Re: Is the 2017 Honda Civic Hatchback a True Sports Car?

Originally Posted by .Grimace View Post
I've got to agree with Todd on this one

also anyone who bashes the Miata has either never driven one or is so insecure with their masculinity they must have a loud v8

One of the earliest cars and one of the first times the terms "sports car" was used was a fvcking four seater. Anyone who argues that there is some God of car definitions that sent down some sort of commandment that there is precise fixed definition is dumb, period. And yes the Miata is a great sports car.



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Old 04-25-2017, 10:09 AM
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Default Re: Is the 2017 Honda Civic Hatchback a True Sports Car?

same performance as a 06-10 si and no need for 93 octane.. wood buy
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Old 04-25-2017, 10:10 AM
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Default Re: Is the 2017 Honda Civic Hatchback a True Sports Car?

I like how there's link that says see what the forum is saying about it! Making it sound all happy but it takes you here, in GDD....with all of us. Whose idea was that?!
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Old 04-25-2017, 10:13 AM
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Default Re: Is the 2017 Honda Civic Hatchback a True Sports Car?

yeah grumpy old men Gdd..lulz
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Old 04-25-2017, 10:21 AM
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Default Re: Is the 2017 Honda Civic Hatchback a True Sports Car?

Originally Posted by .Grimace View Post
I've got to agree with Todd on this one

also anyone who bashes the Miata has either never driven one or is so insecure with their masculinity they must have a loud v8
I drove one once. Piles of ****.
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Old 04-25-2017, 10:21 AM
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Default Re: Is the 2017 Honda Civic Hatchback a True Sports Car?

Originally Posted by ActiveAero View Post
Yes because they're underrated. These Civic's are putting down nearly 190lb/ft at the wheels. A TSX V6 puts down around 210-215 wheel torque. Previous J32 V6 cars put down around 185-200lb/ft to the wheels.

So yeah actually they do put down pretty close to J-series torque numbers of just a few years ago and based on torque to weight figures the Civic has more relative torque. Per Motortrend's dyno test.
Great, so it's making the equivalent torque of 15 year old J32, we've moved up 5 years from the C27.

In reality it's putting out roughly the same torque numbers as other 1.5L turbos, like the 1.5L ecoboost Ford and 1.5L Ecotec Chevy. BMW even manages to do it with one fewer cylinder in the B38.
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Old 04-25-2017, 12:06 PM
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Default Re: Is the 2017 Honda Civic Hatchback a True Sports Car?

Originally Posted by ND40oz View Post
Great, so it's making the equivalent torque of 15 year old J32, we've moved up 5 years from the C27.
Yeah, in a not top of the line Civic that gets 42 mpg. It's a $22,000 Civic that is now nearly as fast as a $30,000+ J-series Accord/Acura from a few years ago and it does it while getting nearly 50% better MPG.

In reality it's putting out roughly the same torque numbers as other 1.5L turbos, like the 1.5L ecoboost Ford and 1.5L Ecotec Chevy.
Then you better ask them why the Civic is faster, has better MPG, and is cheaper.

2017 Chevrolet Cruze LT RS vs. 2017 Honda Civic Sport, 2017 Mazda 3 Touring 2.5, 2017 Volkswagen Golf Wolfsburg Edition - Comparison Tests - Page 6
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Old 04-25-2017, 12:07 PM
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Default Re: Is the 2017 Honda Civic Hatchback a True Sports Car?

Originally Posted by ActiveAero View Post
The better question is who gives a sh*t? When it comes to cars what relevance does the category it is called matter when speaking of it's performance? The title of "sports car" is near meaningless when it simply describes a bunch of physical features with no regard to performance, feel or fun. It is a worthless name and anyone that attempts to group cars from decades past into said group based on near meaningless features when they don't compare in the slightest in terms of performance, feel or function is a fvcking idiot.
A lot going on in that paragraph only to really say nothing at all. And for the record, you're cool if people start labeling 5-door grocery-getters "sports cars"?
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Old 04-25-2017, 12:26 PM
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Default Re: Is the 2017 Honda Civic Hatchback a True Sports Car?

Originally Posted by Todd00 View Post
And for the record, you're cool if people start labeling 5-door grocery-getters "sports cars"?
Yep, don't give a damn because the phrase "sports car" has always been a nebulous term and the way languages work is that they constantly evolve. If a 5 door grocery getter is designed with sporting intentions, has great performance and is fun to drive then it is a hell of a lot more of a sports car than some of the piece of junk that meets some made up rigid set of guidelines that would make it a "sports car" by 2017 internet warrior standards even if said car is less fun to drive than my grandmother's Camry.

Calling a two door convertible a 4-door sedan? Yes that's wrong because the term is literally describing an objective feature of the car that doesn't exist. Getting upset about the non-existent proper use of the term "Sport Cars"? Just stop. It is a general concept that let's people know that the car has some sort of design geared toward enthusiasts driving. There is no set definition, same with words like "Exotic", "Supercar", "Hypercar", or hell even "Luxury", "Economy", and "Offroad".
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Old 04-25-2017, 12:48 PM
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Default Re: Is the 2017 Honda Civic Hatchback a True Sports Car?

Originally Posted by ActiveAero View Post
Yep, don't give a damn because the phrase "sports car" has always been a nebulous term and the way languages work is that they constantly evolve. If a 5 door grocery getter is designed with sporting intentions, has great performance and is fun to drive then it is a hell of a lot more of a sports car than some of the piece of junk that meets some made up rigid set of guidelines that would make it a "sports car" by 2017 internet warrior standards even if said car is less fun to drive than my grandmother's Camry.
The terms or language has not evolved; people (seemingly millenials or people who grew up with the internet) just misuse them. While a 1970's MG might seem archaic today, it's still a sports car even though a Camry would probably beat it around the roadcourse by a full 15 seconds. Let's not forget that in the 1970's, the MG or Alfa or Triumph was exotic and handled just as good or better than he rest of the crap built in the 1970's.

Calling a two door convertible a 4-door sedan? Yes that's wrong because the term is literally describing an objective feature of the car that doesn't exist. Getting upset about the non-existent proper use of the term "Sport Cars"? Just stop. It is a general concept that let's people know that the car has some sort of design geared toward enthusiasts driving. There is no set definition, same with words like "Exotic", "Supercar", "Hypercar", or hell even "Luxury", "Economy", and "Offroad".
Sporty does not = Sports car. I'm amazed that you're liberal with this definition, yet with others you're strictly by-the-book.

I'll leave this here, again:

With all that said, however, there are cars out there that should not be referred to as "sports cars" by anybody who considers himself or herself to be a member of the sainted automotive cognoscenti. The list of such cars includes:
  • SUVs, CUVs, or anything else that doesn't require the use of a floor jack to change the oil and is not a Porsche 959 Dakar. Which is also not a sports car. So leave that in.
  • Fast sedans, like the BMW M5, or their two-door variants, like the BMW M6, or the four-door variants of the two-door variants, like the M6 Gran Coupe, or the crossover variants of the four-door variants of the two-door variants of the four-door, like the X6M.
  • Hot hatches, like the GTI.
  • Rally-reps, like the Mitsubishi Evo or Subaru WRX.
  • Big-money cruiser droptops, like the Bentley Azure, recent-generation Mercedes SL, or Lexus SC430.
  • The Honda CRX or anything else that was meant to be a copy of the Honda CRX.
  • The Mustang, Camaro, Firebird, Challenger, Cougar, Javelin, Barracuda, Genesis Coupe, Accord Coupe, Mazda RX-8, or Mercedes-Benz CLK63 Black Series.
That last one seems to be where most of the confusion occurs. The Mustang is a sedan. Don't like it? Take it up with the Sports Car Club of America, which classifies the Mustang in the "American Sedan" class. The Mustang was always a sedan. It has always been a sedan. It always will be a sedan, unless it changes significantly. If the word "sedan" offends you, then choose the term "pony car," which is also fine and respects the Mustang's unique role in history as a sporting sedan variant of a non-sporting sedan, in this case the Ford Falcon.
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Old 04-25-2017, 01:07 PM
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Default Re: Is the 2017 Honda Civic Hatchback a True Sports Car?

Originally Posted by ActiveAero View Post
Yeah, in a not top of the line Civic that gets 42 mpg. It's a $22,000 Civic that is now nearly as fast as a $30,000+ J-series Accord/Acura from a few years ago and it does it while getting nearly 50% better MPG.
I must just have fond memories of old J series Hondas because a 7 sec 0-60 with a 15.2 second 1/4 mile is only roughly comparable to B18B DC4 Integra, not really fast at all. But yes, in 15 years worth of progress, cars offer like or better performance for the same or less cost.

Originally Posted by ActiveAero View Post
I was comparing 1.5L turbo torque numbers, which are basically right around the same numbers. It's making the same amount of torque 1.5L turbo engines make but it's not comparable to a modern V6. I'm glad they managed to position it well against it's main competitors, all of which offer basically the same type of drivetrain config with the exception of the skyactive Mazda.
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Old 04-25-2017, 03:16 PM
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Default Re: Is the 2017 Honda Civic Hatchback a True Sports Car?

Originally Posted by Kelsoldipseez View Post
**** man. i suck dick at writing but i could blow this **** out of the water

sexually aroused by the twisties?
I turned off the video after he said that :
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Old 04-25-2017, 03:22 PM
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Default Re: Is the 2017 Honda Civic Hatchback a True Sports Car?

lol you fail at comebacks
Originally Posted by tron_ View Post
Totally what comes to mind when people think of "sports car". Sike.
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Old 04-25-2017, 03:22 PM
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Default Re: Is the 2017 Honda Civic Hatchback a True Sports Car?

What the **** are you talking about willis? 1991 NSX with electric Power Steering? Please go on. . . .
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Old 04-25-2017, 03:26 PM
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Default Re: Is the 2017 Honda Civic Hatchback a True Sports Car?

This thread feels like boxer briefs from 1999 that "Still fit".
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Old 04-25-2017, 03:27 PM
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Default Re: Is the 2017 Honda Civic Hatchback a True Sports Car?

Originally Posted by Todd00 View Post
The terms or language has not evolved; people (seemingly millenials or people who grew up with the internet) just misuse them. While a 1970's MG might seem archaic today, it's still a sports car even though a Camry would probably beat it around the roadcourse by a full 15 seconds. Let's not forget that in the 1970's, the MG or Alfa or Triumph was exotic and handled just as good or better than he rest of the crap built in the 1970's.
Well you better let the people who first coined the term "sports car" know because they apparently didn't know the "correct" definition either. Cars that did not meet your definition of "Sports car" have been called "sports cars" since the very beginning, including one of the very first cars to ever have that word associated with it.

And yes an MG or Alfa is a sports car to most people because it was built with a sporting intent and was fun to drive. I think you're assuming when I talk of "POS cars" that I must be referring to old sports cars based on their objective performance numbers. Sorry but I'm not. I'm pointing out that by your definition of a "sports car" it would include absolute turd mobiles that just happen to be RWD two seater convertibles that even in their day completely sucked and weren't enthusiast sporting machines at all.

With all that said, however, there are cars out there that should not be referred to as "sports cars" by anybody who considers himself or herself to be a member of the sainted automotive cognoscenti. The list of such cars includes:
  • SUVs, CUVs, or anything else that doesn't require the use of a floor jack to change the oil and is not a Porsche 959 Dakar. Which is also not a sports car. So leave that in.
  • Fast sedans, like the BMW M5, or their two-door variants, like the BMW M6, or the four-door variants of the two-door variants, like the M6 Gran Coupe, or the crossover variants of the four-door variants of the two-door variants of the four-door, like the X6M.
  • Hot hatches, like the GTI.
  • Rally-reps, like the Mitsubishi Evo or Subaru WRX.
  • Big-money cruiser droptops, like the Bentley Azure, recent-generation Mercedes SL, or Lexus SC430.
  • The Honda CRX or anything else that was meant to be a copy of the Honda CRX.
  • The Mustang, Camaro, Firebird, Challenger, Cougar, Javelin, Barracuda, Genesis Coupe, Accord Coupe, Mazda RX-8, or Mercedes-Benz CLK63 Black Series.
Some of those I would agree with, some I would disagree with. There is no hard definition for what a sports car is. Cry all you want but it's the truth.
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Old 04-25-2017, 03:34 PM
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Default Re: Is the 2017 Honda Civic Hatchback a True Sports Car?

Originally Posted by ND40oz View Post
I must just have fond memories of old J series Hondas because a 7 sec 0-60 with a 15.2 second 1/4 mile is only roughly comparable to B18B DC4 Integra, not really fast at all.
I could care less about ET as that is driver/track prep/tire dependent. The relevant info is that it trapped 94mph in that specific test while Car and Driver's trapped 95mph in their test. No B18B Integra was trapping anywhere close to that.
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Old 04-25-2017, 03:51 PM
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Default Re: Is the 2017 Honda Civic Hatchback a True Sports Car?

Originally Posted by AZ_CIVIC View Post
What is that a 3rd gear dyno pull?
duh! What other gears does VTECH hit hard in?
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Old 04-25-2017, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by A D NOH View Post
duh! What other gears does VTECH hit hard in?
None.
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Old 04-25-2017, 04:43 PM
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Default Re: Is the 2017 Honda Civic Hatchback a True Sports Car?

Originally Posted by tron_ View Post
Totally what comes to mind when people think of "sports car". Sike.
You probably should recalibrate your definition if it doesn't.
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