evil vapor

Look into upgrading your final drive ala ring and pinion gear set.

Factory FD on '00-'03 = 4.10
aftermarket ranges from 4.33-5.1

The most popular for everyday drivers are the 4.44s. Increasing the gearing will NOT give you power. It will make you accelerate faster by giving you 8% higher mechanical advantage compared the stock ratio of 4.10s. This means you'll be 300rpms higher in each gear compared to the stock ratio of 4.10s. Downsides are you'll need to shift sooner, you'll need to get a speedo calibration device (yellow box) to compensate the change in gearing. Some claim that the gear swaps have given them poor gas milage. That's unrelated to the final drive swap and is more likely to their heavier right foot as the car is MUCH more fun to drive with shorter gearing. Gas milage is related to throttle position which = load. The more load you put on a motor, the more gas it will use. Simply cruising 300rpm higher at a light load will not = poor gas milage if noticeable. Overall, this mod is known as the biggest bang for the buck, you'll love to drive the car even more and will make daily city driving much easier.

In terms of gas milage, I'm running 4.77 gears and have actually seen better gas milage in the city, most likely due to getting to 6th sooner (not needing to shift later)...I have seen very similar if not the same gas milage on the hwy (I don't go faster than 80mph).

The most common gear sets are the 4.44s and now more people are going for the 4.77s. J's racing will be releasing soon 5.10 gear sets which might be overkill. Please notice I didn't list a decrease in top speed as a downside. The theorhetical top speed of the car with the stock gear ratios is around 170mph. It's HIGHLY unlikely you'll see that. The 4.44s will bring you down to around 150-155mph depending on tire choice (overall tire diameter affects gearing which affects accel and top speed). Again, I don't think very many of you will reach 155mph safely on the streets. There is one track out here (cali speedway running the GT configuration) that has a straightaway which MAY allow you to see those speeds, but that's doubtfull unless you're making a lot of power. Which brings me to the 4.77 gear set, top speed is about 140mph. Again remember guys that driving over 100mph in cali will get you 2 points on your record and did I say it's considered wreckless? No worries, you're motors will be rev'ing at higher rpms. Drive safely.

RStoR

Rick's is having Richmond produce a 4.57 FD.

CLOUT

i do agree, a new FD will be one of my next mods.(probably the 4.56 or 4.77)

also the new 4.56 will supposedly be stronger than the past gear sets and i believe the 4.44's are going to be out of production(Rick's gears)...Rick also sells the yellow box which corrects the speedo error. the gears are about high 500's dollar range.

many owners will say this is the greatest bang for the buck...i can't wait

for the H-T heads-up vapor

TommyV

Wow Vapor - thank you, someone finally explained gearing in english.

I'm glad you are a moderator.

And just out of curiosity... why don't you care for what you've seen on S2Ki about turbo charging S2000s? (Reason I ask, is because that is my ultimate goal, AFTER, I buy a house)

OC 335i

Nice write-up.

Ardy,

I understand that you install these right? How much would you charge a neighbor?

-JT

ITRbroham

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JMS JT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Nice write-up.

Ardy,

I understand that you install these right? How much would you charge a neighbor? </TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm interested t00!

I plan on going with the 4.77's soon. Is the yellow box to calibrate the speedo difficult to wire up? That's one of the reason that has held me up in getting and installing the FD.

evil vapor

No worries guys. I think this is the single most noticable and advantageous mod for the car...well besides neon underbody glow lights

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GDPzS2000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> also the new 4.56 will supposedly be stronger than the past gear sets and i believe the 4.44's are going to be out of production(Rick's gears)</TD></TR></TABLE>

Original manufactuer of the gear seats is located in Japan in which mazda and honda both use. Rick was able to get in contact with them for his last run of gear sets. Not sure what he's doing now but I would be hesitant to believe any gear set would be stronger than the others. The weak link in the rear diff assembly is not the gears or the bearings, it's the housing. The housing flexes under shock, creates play within the tolerances of the gears and bearings and you start sheering teeth off of the pinion or ring gear.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TommyV &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And just out of curiosity... why don't you care for what you've seen on S2Ki about turbo charging S2000s?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think that's Mase. I'm just against any sort of FI on any honda unless you know way ahead of time what you're getting into (motor rebuild, stand alone ecu, Tuning tuning and more tuning). Stock FI motors don't last as long as stock NA motors under track conditions, I like reliability over sheer crazy power.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ITRbroham &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Is the yellow box to calibrate the speedo difficult to wire up? That's one of the reason that has held me up in getting and installing the FD.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The yellow box is the easiet part. Don't let that keep you up. The hardest part is keeping your foot off the throttle b/c you'll be having a lot more fun driving the car around.

In terms of installs, I can recommend a mechanic that does them here in local so cal. Just shoot me a PM.

M-Type

how much do the yellow box cost?

Mase

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TommyV &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
And just out of curiosity... why don't you care for what you've seen on S2Ki about turbo charging S2000s? (Reason I ask, is because that is my ultimate goal, AFTER, I buy a house)</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah thats me, not vapor. Like I said before, i dont post much on S2ki because the lack of info that roams that place when it comes to FI.

Anyways, back on topic

I might start a thread SC vs Turbocharger on the S2k....

CLOUT

Original manufactuer of the gear seats is located in Japan in which mazda and honda both use. Rick was able to get in contact with them for his last run of gear sets. Not sure what he's doing now but I would be hesitant to believe any gear set would be stronger than the others. The weak link in the rear diff assembly is not the gears or the bearings, it's the housing. The housing flexes under shock, creates play within the tolerances of the gears and bearings and you start sheering teeth off of the pinion or ring gear.

right on. but i was talking about like the gear set hardness(like how some owners cryro treat their gears to be stronger)...the manufactuer made them a little stronger than before.

from rick's site:They are stronger, better made, and are delivered with special treatments for hardness and improved lubrication (the latter uses a process developed by NASA for the treatment of critical engine parts in the Space Shuttle).

once again great heads up vapor

RStoR

All that is needed now is a longer 1st gear.

crxONcrack

wondering about warrantys.....................

if you have a different FD put into your car.....will honda hassle you about changing the gear????

20lb.teg

Honda probablly won't get down and measure your ring gear... In other words, don't ask, don't tell. And they would never be able to tell the difference unless they took apart the rear end and started measuring.

Later,

Sean C.

AP1ayer

edit, i just read above comments.


Modified by AP1ayer at 12:25 AM 12/5/2003

profpin

cant wait until the bad weather is gone to chfeck out the new fd...
(sometimes living in the midwest can be a drag...)

Dramier

How about a general ballpark dollar figure for the gear swap?

How difficult of an install? Something my wife can do herself pretty easily, or something I'm going to have to do myself with 8 hours of busting labor, or so bad nothing short of Honda mechanic gods can handle it?

Thanks for the info.

evil vapor

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dramier &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How about a general ballpark dollar figure for the gear swap?

How difficult of an install? Something my wife can do herself pretty easily, or something I'm going to have to do myself with 8 hours of busting labor, or so bad nothing short of Honda mechanic gods can handle it?

Thanks for the info. </TD></TR></TABLE>

The ring and pinion gear itself can cost from 550-1000 depending on who you get it from. Some other parts you'll need will be a crush washer, pinion bearing (if damaged on removal), and shims to properly spec the clearances. You'll also need some sort of sealant similar to Honda bond or RTV in a can. Tools required will be a press, bearing puller, and a dial guage. You'll also need some sort of dye to check the depth and contact characteristic b/w the teeth of the ring and pinion gear.

If you've worked on RWD diff units before, this wont be any different. But if this is your first time, I'd advise you take it to someone that has worked on rear ends before, even better if experienced on s2000 rear ends. You'll need to remove the diff assembly (I've done it in 45 min) and you'll need to reinstall it when the gears have been swapped (about an hour).

If you get a good deal on the gears and parts and pay someone do to the entire swap, figure around $1000. IMO, it's the biggest bang for the buck mod you can do to this car.

mclaren55

I am a noob.

Dramier

Thanks for the write-up Vapor. Definitly sounds like a project a little above my current skill level. I'll talk to my local shop here and see if they can tackle it.

Definitly sounds like a good investment though.

evil vapor

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dramier &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks for the write-up Vapor. Definitly sounds like a project a little above my current skill level. I'll talk to my local shop here and see if they can tackle it.

Definitly sounds like a good investment though. </TD></TR></TABLE>

No problem, it's not easy, but the diff assembly removal from the car is do-able and might save costs on the job, only labor required would then be the actual gear swap.

Hondatec38

Hehe. I saw someone mention something about Rick's gearsets. Anyone care to see the parts I just replaced in his tranny?


This is not a direct effect from the gearsets. I think they are a wonderful mod. The whole Mazda rear diff thing really get's to me sometimes.

LudeyKrus

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vapor &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Some claim that the gear swaps have given them poor gas milage...... Gas milage is related to throttle position which = load. The more load you put on a motor, the more gas it will use. Simply cruising 300rpm higher at a light load will not = poor gas milage if noticeable</TD></TR></TABLE>

Just passin through the S2k forum and saw this thread......just thought I would add: I coulda swore that the fuel press. rises in relation to load AND rpm....which is why the Corvette's final gear was made so it cruises at a lower rpm, increasing fuel economy while cruising, so it could benefit from being classed as something.....

evil vapor

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LudeyKrus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Just passin through the S2k forum and saw this thread......just thought I would add: I coulda swore that the fuel press. rises in relation to load AND rpm....which is why the Corvette's final gear was made so it cruises at a lower rpm, increasing fuel economy while cruising, so it could benefit from being classed as something.....</TD></TR></TABLE>

remember we are talking about a 600rpm increase with the 4.77 ring gear and a 300rpm increase with the 4.44 ring gear. Fuel pressure does increase as well as as the pulse width of the fuel injectors, but not like the comparison b/w idle (800rpms) and near redline at 8600rpms.

What's the biggest factor in gas milage? Load...and you don't mash your foot any harder on the gas if you're cruising 600rpms higher in 6th gear with the 4.77s than you do while running the stock 4.10 ring gear. If anything, you decrease the load on the engine while increasing the rpms it spins. I have seen increases in gas milage since the gear swaps, from 4.10 to 4.44 and finally 4.77. My highway miles have stayed the same but my city milage has improved. You spend less time on the throttle and shift sooner...get to 6th gear sooner since the car accelerates quicker compared to a stock 4.10 ring gear.

I've tried telling some of the folks on s2ki about this and they insist I'm wrong even though they're still riding on the stock 4.10 ratio and have zero experience with this car and final drive upgrades asociated with fuel milage. It's pretty funny.

CD5sam

the problem with the gear upgrade is not a decrease in MPG,but more wear and tear on the motor since the car will be travelling at the same speed but at a higher rpm. but think about it, the differnece in the amount of wear and tear is so minute that it won't really be that noticable.

Black R

omg, if I had an s2k I'd get the 5.10 final in a heartbeat...

What are the prices for these FD's?