Warm up problem?
07-16-2016, 08:25 AM
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Warm up problem?
Hi,
I am helping a friend to resolve a problem with his 2003 Ruckus, and although I am a fair “backyard mechanic” type of guy, my skills really are more geared towards cars and trucks (4Runners!).
At this point I have been unable to resolve (or even determine the source of..) the issue, so I am requesting assistance.
Here's the description of the problem, and what I've done to try to resolve it:
Problem Description:
Bike had been running properly, then, one day, about two or three months ago, it suddenly became difficult to start. The electric start had to be held longer than normally, and used repetitively, and when it did finally “bite”, and stay running, it was weak feeling, and required the throttle to be held and played with a bit, until it was adequately warm. Usually, the first couple of minutes riding would get the engine operating properly. If the engine is stopped and allowed to cool for more than 15-20 minutes, the difficult starting procedure would need to be done again.
In an effort to resolve it, my friend had done some maintenance, installing a new air filter, fuel filter, and cleaning the carb. Some difference was noticeable (improvement), but it was minimal and marginal.
At this point I was invited to assist. Seeing as it seemed to be an issue connected to the warm-up, I focused my efforts at examining the “starting environment enrichment valve” and the “Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor”. I used a caliper to measure the action of the valve as the wax core was heated, and it seemed to behave exactly as it should be, according to a number of videos that I looked at on YouTube
I used an Ohmeter to determine that the resistance values of the ECT Sensor were way out from spec, so assuming I had found the problem, I happily ordered a replacement ECT from Honda. It arrived several days later, and I replaced the old one immediately. I was completely expecting the problem to be totally resolved,and was irked and disappointed to discover that there was no appreciable change in the starting behavior.
I seem to be running up against a wall, as the only other component I could imagine being involved in this problem was the ECM.
Before I ask my friend to buy a new ECM, I wanted to poll this forum, and see if anybody here had already dealt with a similar problem and knew a resolution.
I am helping a friend to resolve a problem with his 2003 Ruckus, and although I am a fair “backyard mechanic” type of guy, my skills really are more geared towards cars and trucks (4Runners!).
At this point I have been unable to resolve (or even determine the source of..) the issue, so I am requesting assistance.
Here's the description of the problem, and what I've done to try to resolve it:
Problem Description:
Bike had been running properly, then, one day, about two or three months ago, it suddenly became difficult to start. The electric start had to be held longer than normally, and used repetitively, and when it did finally “bite”, and stay running, it was weak feeling, and required the throttle to be held and played with a bit, until it was adequately warm. Usually, the first couple of minutes riding would get the engine operating properly. If the engine is stopped and allowed to cool for more than 15-20 minutes, the difficult starting procedure would need to be done again.
In an effort to resolve it, my friend had done some maintenance, installing a new air filter, fuel filter, and cleaning the carb. Some difference was noticeable (improvement), but it was minimal and marginal.
At this point I was invited to assist. Seeing as it seemed to be an issue connected to the warm-up, I focused my efforts at examining the “starting environment enrichment valve” and the “Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor”. I used a caliper to measure the action of the valve as the wax core was heated, and it seemed to behave exactly as it should be, according to a number of videos that I looked at on YouTube
I used an Ohmeter to determine that the resistance values of the ECT Sensor were way out from spec, so assuming I had found the problem, I happily ordered a replacement ECT from Honda. It arrived several days later, and I replaced the old one immediately. I was completely expecting the problem to be totally resolved,and was irked and disappointed to discover that there was no appreciable change in the starting behavior.
I seem to be running up against a wall, as the only other component I could imagine being involved in this problem was the ECM.
Before I ask my friend to buy a new ECM, I wanted to poll this forum, and see if anybody here had already dealt with a similar problem and knew a resolution.
05-27-2020, 06:57 AM
#3
05-27-2020, 06:58 AM
#4
Re: Warm up problem?
Hi,
I am helping a friend to resolve a problem with his 2003 Ruckus, and although I am a fair “backyard mechanic” type of guy, my skills really are more geared towards cars and trucks (4Runners!).
At this point I have been unable to resolve (or even determine the source of..) the issue, so I am requesting assistance.
Here's the description of the problem, and what I've done to try to resolve it:
Problem Description:
Bike had been running properly, then, one day, about two or three months ago, it suddenly became difficult to start. The electric start had to be held longer than normally, and used repetitively, and when it did finally “bite”, and stay running, it was weak feeling, and required the throttle to be held and played with a bit, until it was adequately warm. Usually, the first couple of minutes riding would get the engine operating properly. If the engine is stopped and allowed to cool for more than 15-20 minutes, the difficult starting procedure would need to be done again.
In an effort to resolve it, my friend had done some maintenance, installing a new air filter, fuel filter, and cleaning the carb. Some difference was noticeable (improvement), but it was minimal and marginal.
At this point I was invited to assist. Seeing as it seemed to be an issue connected to the warm-up, I focused my efforts at examining the “starting environment enrichment valve” and the “Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor”. I used a caliper to measure the action of the valve as the wax core was heated, and it seemed to behave exactly as it should be, according to a number of videos that I looked at on YouTube
I used an Ohmeter to determine that the resistance values of the ECT Sensor were way out from spec, so assuming I had found the problem, I happily ordered a replacement ECT from Honda. It arrived several days later, and I replaced the old one immediately. I was completely expecting the problem to be totally resolved,and was irked and disappointed to discover that there was no appreciable change in the starting behavior.
I seem to be running up against a wall, as the only other component I could imagine being involved in this problem was the ECM.
Before I ask my friend to buy a new ECM, I wanted to poll this forum, and see if anybody here had already dealt with a similar problem and knew a resolution.
I am helping a friend to resolve a problem with his 2003 Ruckus, and although I am a fair “backyard mechanic” type of guy, my skills really are more geared towards cars and trucks (4Runners!).
At this point I have been unable to resolve (or even determine the source of..) the issue, so I am requesting assistance.
Here's the description of the problem, and what I've done to try to resolve it:
Problem Description:
Bike had been running properly, then, one day, about two or three months ago, it suddenly became difficult to start. The electric start had to be held longer than normally, and used repetitively, and when it did finally “bite”, and stay running, it was weak feeling, and required the throttle to be held and played with a bit, until it was adequately warm. Usually, the first couple of minutes riding would get the engine operating properly. If the engine is stopped and allowed to cool for more than 15-20 minutes, the difficult starting procedure would need to be done again.
In an effort to resolve it, my friend had done some maintenance, installing a new air filter, fuel filter, and cleaning the carb. Some difference was noticeable (improvement), but it was minimal and marginal.
At this point I was invited to assist. Seeing as it seemed to be an issue connected to the warm-up, I focused my efforts at examining the “starting environment enrichment valve” and the “Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor”. I used a caliper to measure the action of the valve as the wax core was heated, and it seemed to behave exactly as it should be, according to a number of videos that I looked at on YouTube
I used an Ohmeter to determine that the resistance values of the ECT Sensor were way out from spec, so assuming I had found the problem, I happily ordered a replacement ECT from Honda. It arrived several days later, and I replaced the old one immediately. I was completely expecting the problem to be totally resolved,and was irked and disappointed to discover that there was no appreciable change in the starting behavior.
I seem to be running up against a wall, as the only other component I could imagine being involved in this problem was the ECM.
Before I ask my friend to buy a new ECM, I wanted to poll this forum, and see if anybody here had already dealt with a similar problem and knew a resolution.
01-18-2021, 06:23 AM
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Re: Warm up problem?
Went to auto zone to try and find a magnetic engine block warmer, but those wont work because the aluminum engine.
I found that if you get a cheap $10 hair dryer, and place it basically on top of the carburetor for 10-20 minutes, your ruckus should be warm enough to get idled, and then just sit and slowly give it gas till it warms up.
01-19-2021, 05:48 AM
#6
Re: Warm up problem?
After some exhaustive testing of the ignition/electrical, automatic choke, and carb I ended up bringing that machine to a repair shop. They ultimately checked the valves, which were out of adjustment. It now starts, idles properly, etc., so I would suggest trying that.
03-05-2021, 10:19 AM
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Re: Warm up problem?
First the originator of this thread deserves kudos for his excellent description. I've encountered the the same problems. Here is an alternative that may get you running although the real problem still seems to remain a mystery.
Try using a finger to block the air intake in the air intake housing. It's just like "in the old days" when you manually choked the carb.
It will start, then run rich because of the excess fuel, then remove your finger for a second or two and it will start to falter, so put you finger back.
Shortly it will warm up enough to run. If this works, one would think it points to the automatic choke and/or the idle jet.
However, I've made sure they are not clogged or maladjusted and the problem still persists. Go figure.
I first discovered this while troubleshooting and found that if I "pinched" the hose coming from the air intake box to the carb,
the engine would start and run/falter as described above. Later I read someone else's post where he utilized the "finger in the air intake" method.
This was much easier because no disassembly was needed to get to that point to block the air intake.
Let me know if it works for any of you.
Try using a finger to block the air intake in the air intake housing. It's just like "in the old days" when you manually choked the carb.
It will start, then run rich because of the excess fuel, then remove your finger for a second or two and it will start to falter, so put you finger back.
Shortly it will warm up enough to run. If this works, one would think it points to the automatic choke and/or the idle jet.
However, I've made sure they are not clogged or maladjusted and the problem still persists. Go figure.
I first discovered this while troubleshooting and found that if I "pinched" the hose coming from the air intake box to the carb,
the engine would start and run/falter as described above. Later I read someone else's post where he utilized the "finger in the air intake" method.
This was much easier because no disassembly was needed to get to that point to block the air intake.
Let me know if it works for any of you.
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