Rasmusm

Hi all

Okay, I finished my build. And got to the dyno. Car made some decent pulls on the dyno with out much tuning yet, Tuned on s300.
Car got broken in with some special breakin oil. And then dyno right after. Nothing went wrong until it got some RPM's on the dyno.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBSYHY6dpDc

We stopped cause I noticed the radiator over flow spitted out water. I asked him to stop, and I thought I filled to much water in it. Well we tried to fire her back up. But we couldnt even crank it... So sparkplugs out and a small cam down to see whats going on. Yea cyl 4+3+2 was all fine but cyl1 was filled with coolant water.. And I was kinda pissed at that point.

Anyways I got the head off, and found this.


Next picture is prolly the best, you can see why the coolant got in to the cyl. Didnt get a picture of the headgasket but its kinda ****ed up aswell right there.. Notice the black spot on the sleeve





But I wonder how this can happen?


This picture was the same side of the engine, right next to the timing belt after the dartons got installed.



The head got a mild port/polish job done, and surface was diamond cut, by a respectable shop.

And I am pretty sure I inspected the block/dartons for the surface he made. They were all surfaced/aligned..





As for the headgasket, I used the Stone headgasket or eStone or what they are called, OEM honda. I even believe they make hondas headgaskets. Bought from importreplacementparts, shouldnt be anything to do whith the gasket.

Everything is bolted down with ARP bolts, torqued to spec. And installed from the manual (middle to out) in 3 steps.

So my question is, what can cause this leak?
Apparently I'd have to take everything apart again and get the block aligned once again.. I kinda hope the shop will do that for free. But daaamn all the time and money wasted on gaskets, oils and belts :'/

Any thoughts on this? I would really appreciate it.

Thanks, and sorry my english isnt perfect

Best regards Rasmus
Denmark

Ps. I posted this on other forums aswell

carnot

Take a straight edge to the block and head and see what the tolerances look like at the point of failure.

Rosko

iTrader: (1)

Rasmus who put the sleeves in?

Do you feel any steps between the sleeves and the block like the sleeves have sunk?

Alot of times its a good idea to "step deck" sleeved blocks like these where the outside areas would be machined .002" or .05mm so that the sleeve around the cylinder area would be taller and seal before anything else.

Rasmusm

I see what you mean there, interesting idea.
I dont feel any step between the sleeve and the block. I will check further tomorrow with our digital depth gauge, can measure .0005mm. So if anything that should clear things up a bit.

I could machine the deck as you say and leave .05mm around the cylinder to make it seal there. But should It be neccesary? I mean car is not turboed, only n/a.

What about the head gasket, the one I bought was for the h22a4, is there even any difference between the a1 and a4 gasket?

Rosko

iTrader: (1)

It depends on the sleeve really, and how good it was installed. Sleeves with more steps on them are more likely to stay put, but alot of times the sleeve will sink a small amount once the block is heated up and pressure is put on it. If its step decked, you are putting preload on the sleeve around the cylinder where it needs to seal up the most. Golden Eagle machines their blocks this way as well.

I am willing to bet that sleeve has sunk since it was installed or the fit was too loose on the diameters at the top of the sleeve and its letting it move around.

You would have to check with Darton, but by the looks of it the h22a4 gasket would be the correct one.

crazes

whats the deal with that major heat spot in that specific section and not around

AznBlueBoy

I have seen a few darton sleeves sink now. It is all in the install. Golden eagle as well as the benson sleeved blocks have a stepped deck and I never heard of anyone having sleeves sink. My block is about 5 years old now with no problems.

Rasmusm

Crazes: It is because the sleeve either sunk or wasnt decked correct. So it would fire out there.

This is what I got from Darton
First mail:
"From the looks of the picture is looks like the head gasket blew causing coolant to leak into the cylinder. It’s hard to tell completely by the picture but from what we can see you did lose some sealing on the black burned portion of the sleeve.*You need to check the deck surface to make sure the sleeve is still equal with the deck. If it is then it may have been a tuning issue. If it is not then you may need to press down on the sleeve to make sure it is seated and re-deck the block."

Second mail:
" Step decking a block is a preference. We zero deck the block so the sleeves are flush with the deck. If you want extra sealing we would recommend using a copper seal wire to help sealing the head gasket. Some people prefer step decking and some don’t it is a preference."

crazes

I would agree if the ring of over heat was further around in the ring. If it sunked you would see the complete ring have over heating signs. The decking is possible but the decking would show also follow to the outer portion of the sleeve

Rasmusm

Heres a few pictures of how the head gasket looks like..

Rasmusm

I think maybe, if the sleeve was pressed in a bit sidewards. And it sunk further down, could that cause it?

Another thing I thought about is, if the mill he decked the head with wasnt 100% aligned he would make a huge Radius down on the deck. If its a 400mm mill he uses, I dont know, but then there would be a 200mm radius on the deck, which is hard to spot. But then again if that was the case, I would see it all the sleeves I guess..

Car didnt get hot duing the breakin or the dyno. No where near.. Got a huge Koyo radiator with 2x12" slim fans mounted :/ and no signs of detonation/knock

Rosko

iTrader: (1)

You had the gasket on right side up correct? I just saw the "up" cutout in that gasket and the damage on that side of the gasket as well... which would be the cylinder head side. Since theres burn marks on the block I would think the gasket damage would match up?

Rasmusm

Tbh, I didnt install the gasket my self. How do you spot the 'up' cutout?
Can take a picture tomorrow and lay it on the block, for a better idea of how it was installed.

Take this picture.

Flip the gasket 180 degrees (Upside down)
This what you see here faces the block. Im pretty sure thats how it was installed.

The second of the 4th pictures i showed faced the head (cyl 1)

Rosko

iTrader: (1)

Ok, that makes sense. I circled the "up" cutout, that is the cylinder head side but it sounds like it was on there right. Just checking!

Rasmusm

Ah yea found it.
I measured the block today. Sleeve 4 was 0.09mm below deck. Funny the sleeve that failed (1) was only 0.01-0.02mm below. Does that make any sense at all?

And why would it fail there. Bad head gasket? Cant think of any explanation

Rasmusm

So after fixing the issue last summer, car went ahead and did the same thing again :/

Sunken sleeves, but feels like its only on the exhaust side (Guess it gets hotter there..)

But they were sunk like 0.07mm this time..
Kinda freaks me out.. And pisses me off. Car did around 5000km this time before it happend.. Noticed because it vibrated alot more than it used to and then some coolant dissapeared... So ye, back to square 1..

Took the block out today, this time I will fabricate some kopper rings to lay on all 4 sleeves and put down my deck plate i made. And then resurface it afterwards, maybe even step deck it

But one question for the stepdecking..
Do you only leave 0.05mm on the sleeve around the cylinder area or is it the whole sleeve with water canals that is 0.05mm over deck?