Cole Peters

Hey guys, so I replaced the head gasket on my F22A1 prelude and afterwards I've got a strange whine going on. The best way I have to describe it is almost like a supercharger whine. Pretty high pitched and it is directly related to engine speed. I can hear it slightly at idle, it's really noticeable in 2nd gear cruising around 2k rpm, but on the highway I can't even hear it. Now, obviously I had my timing belt stuff all apart when I took my old head off. I think I adjusted it too tight initially so I took it all apart and adjusted it according to the manual which said something like loosen the adjuster nut and turn the crankshaft 3 teeth on the camshaft sprocket, then I tightened it all back up and put it back together. Still makes the whine, maybe not quite as loud. I thought that maybe something was slightly rubbing on the timing cover so I drove it to Salina and back(about 20 miles one way) and it still whines. I'm stumped. Highly doubt it's a bad bearing somewhere because that makes a low groan/shitty noise, this is high pitched and changes with engine speed. If anyone has had any issues like this and can shed some light on it for me I would greatly appreciate it!

backinblue92

iTrader: (1)

Your timing belt is too tight

Cole Peters

I adjusted it how the timing belt book calls to adjust it today and it seems to be slightly quieter but it still whines. It said "turn crankshaft counterclockwise 3 teeth of camshaft sprocket. Loosen the tensioner nut to allow tensioner to operate. Torque tensioner to 33 ft lbs. I did this exactly and it still fricking whines. Maybe I need to take the timing covers off again and adjust the tension manually. Kind of a pain in the *** though. Idk, I'm torn between doing that and saying screw it.

backinblue92

iTrader: (1)

Is this an h22 or h23? The 22 is obviously an auto tensioner so the whole 3 teeth turn of the crank is over tightening it. I would imagine, at least. I never did that with my first auto tensioner. Just stuck it on and drove.

If it's a 2.3, then u may wanna go back and check the tension and loosen it until it u have 90* deflection (general rule of thumb) from the exhaust cam sprocket to the lower crank sprocket.

That whine u hear is your bearings. Water pump. Tensioner pulley. Etc. Premature wear.

holmesnmanny

You need to set it to tdc first. Then loosen the adjusting nut a half a turn. Then turn the crankshaft bolt so that the cam turns only 3 teeth. Then tighten the adjusting nut to spec, it's important not to overtighten it or you can kill your tensioner bearings.

Setting it to tdc ensures the springs put the proper tension on the belt when u turn the cam 3 teeth.

Aradin

Whining could also be from the balance shaft belt being too tight, which I would suspect is more likely than the timing belt. It's easy to get the belts too tight if you haven't done a timing belt job before on these. I got so I didn't even follow the service manual routine for tensioning the belts. After doing so many of them I got a good feel for how tight they were supposed to be, set them by hand and forgot about it.

Cole Peters

Ok so I adjusted it again last night. It's an F22 by the way (accord engine) I set it to Tdc, loosened the adjuster nut, turned it 3 teeth on the cam, and tightened the nut back up. I can't get a torque wrench in there but I have a regular 3/8 craftsman Ratchet and tightened it to what I thought was decent. Anyway, it's much quieter now, but still a slight whine. Can't even tell when I'm driving normally, but if I'm just cruising in 1st or 2nd around 2k rpm with the windows down its still there slightly. Think I should dick with it one last time? I adjusted it exactly how the book calls and even made it a tiny bit looser. It is pretty tight on the cam sprocket, probably couldn't slide it off if I tried, but can kinda nudge it around very slightly.

holmesnmanny

Its possible you got the alternator belt too tight or even the ps belt.

Cole Peters

No, it's definitely the timing belt lol. My alternator belt is actually too loose right now because my damn adjuster stripped out and I had to order a new one. I'm just trying to decide if I should mess with the timing belt one more time or not.

backinblue92

iTrader: (1)

Well first of all, u don't have to set it to tdc before turning it 3 teeth. Lol. The spring doesnt know what the hell tdc is. Haha. Thats just unnecessary work and can make it confusing. Look forget about ur timing. As long as all the tdc lines up, you're cool. U want the slack by the water pump and intake sprocket thats all that matters there. As for adjusting it. Since ur using a manual tensioner, do what u think feels best. Too tight = whine. No matter what. U should be able to slide the belt off the cam sprocket by hand if it's not too tight. Don't be afraid to loosen it some.

Like I said, the whine is coming from ur bearings, not the belt. It can cause isdues, yes. If it was my car, I'd loosen it until the whine was gone, ensuring the belt didn't become too loose either. If there's no middle ground, something is wrong.

As a very bright mechanic once told me- if it doesn't feel right, it isn't. Cars aren't built to make weird noises. U see people who do all kinds of weird **** then ask if that'll be alright. Well, if u gotta ask, then it's prolly not. This isn't me being an ***. I'm trying to tell u something valuable to remember. If it doesn't feel right, it's probably not.

holmesnmanny

Straight from my Helms for the exact engine the OP has.

Tension Adjustment

CAUTION: Always adjust timing belt tension with the engine cold.

NOTE:
Tensioner is spring-loaded to apply proper tension to the belt automatically after making the following adjustment.
Inspect the timing balancer belt before adjusting the belt tension.
Do not loosen the adjusting nut more than one full turn.

1. Disconnect the alternator terminal and the connector, then remove the engine wire harness from the valve cover.
2. Remove the valve cover.
3. Set the No. 1 piston at TDC (page 6-25)
4. Loosen the adjusting nut 2/3-1 turn, then tighten the adjusting nut.
ADJUSTING NUT (4.5 kg-m, 33 lb-ft)
5. Rotate the crankshaft counterclockwise 3 teeth on the camshaft pulley, then reloosen the adjusting nut to create tension on the timing belt.
6. Tighten the adjusting nut.
7. If the pulley bolt loosens while turning the crank, retorque it to 220 Nm (22.0 kg-m, 159 lb-ft.

I don't get why some people give out shitty advice for something as serious as timing belt tension when they have no idea what they're talking about. I guess some people think those springs are just there for looks.

The Helms specifically says not to add any tension to the balance shaft belt as it's specifically designed to be extra loose after making the above correct adjustment.

backinblue92

iTrader: (1)

First of all, helms says to put it at tdc for literally everything. It's called liability management. Lol. I wouldn't be surprised if it states to set engine to tdc to change spark plugs, rotate tires or do an oil change. There are important times to ensure tdc, but tensioning your belt is not one of them.

I never said the spring was there for looks? Whatever u want to make up though... But I digress. The spring is to tension the timing belt, yes. At what point in the belt one chooses to tension the said belt at does not matter, so long as it moves 3 teeth and the adjusting nut gets retightened. The only purpose of that 3 teeth movement is to move the slack in the belt out of the intake-exhaust-crank sprockets and into the water pump area. That is why ur not supposed to turn the engine clockwise- you'll throw the slack all over the belt.

But man, every tooth of the belt is the same as the last tooth. So please explain why u would find it necessary to rotate the engine over to tdc first, mechanically speaking. Not because the book said so, but think about it. I'd love to know.

Edit: to the OP. If your belt is still whining after tensioning, you did something wrong, either the tension or another component. You can always measure deflection between the exhaust and crank sprockets as well. There is a set range, I don't know offhand, but it should be easy to find.

Cole Peters

I highly doubt I did anything wrong because I followed the books instructions to the letter. I drove to Salina again today and like I said it barely has a whine to it now. You'd probably only notice it if you're actually listening for it. I just can't decide if I should adjust it again or not. Drives great though other than a rare misfire I've got going on. But ya I'm on the fence about adjusting it again.

backinblue92

iTrader: (1)

Well it's totally up to u. Like we've said, the whine u hear is bearings on sprockets being pushed.

Good luck with the misfire. I've been chasing one for 2 months now, granted not a complete miss, but it's causing smog fails and I've done everything to try and fix it. Lol

holmesnmanny

Since you asked when you never said the springs are for looks.

You don't need to do any adjusting whatsoever. Your stating you need to adjust it, hence basically saying the springs aren't necessary since you're going to adjust it after.

Why do any extra work or try to tinker with what it's designed to do ?


Bearings don't make whining sounds. They make roaring sounds or when they get really bad they start making loud growling sounds as the bearing starts to separate and the ***** inside start to wear from metal on metal contact due to the grease leaking out.

I have no idea in this rare instance why they'd want it to tdc. But I'd rather error on the side of caution. It's not hurting anything. My goal is to give out advice that is designed to allow a car to last. Cutting corners is what gets you into trouble when working on cars. I know this from experience.

backinblue92

iTrader: (1)

Of course the spring is necessary to tension the belt. It should be perfect as is, but old springs can lose their set rates. A little looser if one still gets a whining sound for whatever reason is not bad form. I've personally never gotten a whine after using a manual tensioner, but if he is. Confident in his work, as long as the deflection stays within spec he's not leaving it in a state where the bearings will whine, and yes, as they go bad, start to roar, as u put it. Remember new bearings will not roar as they haven't gone bad yet. They'll create that whine, or at least as far as I've ever figured. From listening to my own belt whine in the past (thanks autotensioner!!), especially around the water pump sprocket, I'm inclined to believe it's good bearings being overextended rather than belt whine. Regardless, it's parts being pushed past their limits.

U say why do any extra work to tinker, well, if the belt/ bearings whatever is whining, I'd consider the extra work in creating some slack to alleviate the potential for bad outcomes well worth it. My .02

Cutting corners is no way to go. Do it right the first time, obviously. But like u said, there's some instances where u are doing unnecessary extra work. My guess is that it's easiest for people to count 3 teeth when the hash mark is at 12 o'clock, then again, I know vets who go around the entire belt 3 teeth at a time. I usually just make tdc timing marks on the old belt, zip tie the sprockets then transfer the marks and slip the new one on. That's not in any manuals, but it generally saves time and ensures it goes on the same way it came off. Everyone with experience has their own ways.

Cole Peters

I adjusted it one last time over the weekend. Again, followed the book and everything turned out the same. It's got a very slight whine to it still. I had my girlfriend ride with me and she said she can't really hear it. Maybe it's mostly in my head because I'm expecting it to be there. I know it is still there though, hopefully just not enough to mess anything up. Keeping my fingers crossed lol

backinblue92

iTrader: (1)

Did u try loosening the belt a tiny bit while keeping the slack in the water pump corner?

I mean if you're concered, keep at it. Personally im not a cross ur fingers type mechanic, but whatever u feel is best. Internet diagnosis is hard. Lol