holmesnmanny

I really cant believe this drivel you are spewing. Its because of people like you that there are thousands of pages of inaccurate information where almost nobody can seem to nail down what different sounds can be based on pedal usage. Lets start with this page on Pedal Free Play straight out of my Helms.

holmesnmanny

It states as follows...

Just to be clear what diaphragm spring is I will now post a picture of the page that states exactly what it means by diaphragm springs.

holmesnmanny

holmesnmanny

Again, Following the logic in that statement, it's saying PLEASE BE SURE THAT THERE IS FREE PLAY BECAUSE IF THERE ISN'T THEN THE THROWOUT BEARING WILL BE HELD AGAINST THE DIAPHRAGM SPRINGS, WHICH WILL CAUSE YOUR CLUTCH DISK TO SLIP IF THE FREEPLAY IS SEVERELY EXCESSIVE OR POSSIBLY THE CLUTCH RELEASE BEARING WILL WEAR FASTER OR OVERHEAT DUE TO IT BEING HELD AGAINST THE PRESSURE PLATE THAT IS CONSTANTLY SPINNING. YOU DO NOT WANT THE RELEASE BEARING TO BE CONSTANTLY SPINNING WHICH WILL HAPPEN IF IT IS AT ALL TIMES BEING HELD AGAINST THE PRESSURE PLATE DIAPHRAGM SPRINGS.

Any other questions on this, free free to let me know.

PS: If you do searches for people that are having problems with throwout bearings, it's almost a dead one that they have no free play and the throwout bearing overheats severely.

holmesnmanny

After having to school him I have to now ask you to be sure you have about a half inch of free play travel in your clutch pedal before the throwout bearing engages the pressure plates diaphragm springs. The Helms calls for 9 - 15 mm of travel. 15 mm is a little over a half inch of play or .59 inches

The only sound I had was when the slave cylinder ball piece wasn't greased but I suppose if you don't have free play you could simply be damaging your throwout bearing.

holmesnmanny

Probably the clutch assist/return spring.

thirsk66

iTrader: (2)

Holmesnmanny I do have to check for the proper 1/2 inch of free play travel in my clutch pedal to rule out if this is my issue or not . And I will grease up the slave cylinder push rod where it meets the release fork while I am at it.

holmesnmanny

Sounds good. Good luck.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

Lol...school me? You've been dodging the question about what stops the spring expansion of the slave cylinder. When the clutch fork stops the slave cylinder expansion...what contacts what?

With everything installed, can you (by hand) push the fork further out (to act on the clutch) Or is something already contacting something else in there?

A ~2lb preload isn't going to be enough to push the fingers in. But the bearing just rests against them. If you set the freeplay too tightly, hydraulic force acts on the bearing and it actually starts to push on the fingers.

You guys seem to have this covered. I guess the bearing magically holds itself away from the fingers completely. Via the clutch assist return spring, apparently. Lol.

:facepalm:

Good luck.

holmesnmanny

http://www.edmunds.com/car-technolog...operation.html

You aren't going to listen to me so listen to a big name website instead.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

Not all slave cylinders are spring loaded like the ones in most Hondas. That is a very generic statement. It also doesn't apply to pull type clutches (not applicable for a prelude...but proves the article is making a very general statement). So obviously, there are quite a few deviations from what that article states.

The slave cylinder in a C5 Z06 that I worked on was oriented in the way the article states, IIRC. I believe that the freeplay is set by the slave cylinder in those cars. I think a few trucks have the same type also. But ALL the hondas I've ever worked on have spring loaded slave cylinders that slightly preload the bearing to the clutch.


Just answer my questions, professor:

What stops the Prelude's spring loaded slave cylinder's piston from expanding out fully?

With the slave cylinder installed and the clutch freeplay set 100% properly...can you push the fork towards the clutch fingers more before it stops (is that where the freeplay is?)? Or is the fork already butted up against something?

holmesnmanny

What part of "clutch RETURN spring" are you not understanding exactly ?

thirsk66

iTrader: (2)

Just put grease on my slave cylinder push rod I will have to do a thorough check if the noise goes away or not. And for the clutch pedal having the proper free play in it, it does so I am set there.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

What are you talking about?? You've never done a clutch job, have you?


You're making it more complicated than you have to. Component list starting at the flywheel:

-flywheel
-disc
-PP
-throw out bearing
- fork
-slave cyl
-lines
-MC
-pedal


Where is the "clutch return spring" located? How does it work exactly? HOW does it act to pull the release bearing away from the diaphragm spring? Start making sense.

I'm sure you have no clue how all of this works.

Look dude...you're avoiding questions and its obvious you're in over your head. Its fine that you wanted to be rude and say something stupid like you "schooled" me. Man up. Answer my question:

When you push on the fork (as it is assembled in the car), is it already butted up against something? What's preventing it from going further?

Or just keep dodging it because you know you're wrong. NBD. Or prove me wrong and I'll admit it.

holmesnmanny

I showed you pics straight out of the Helms but you are clearly so retarded and thickheaded you want to keep acting like you have no ******* clue but thats cool because i guess ignoring what Honda is telling you via the Helms might subconsciously be making you feel like you are right, which based on firsthand knowledge that i have, and real physical documentation proves i am instead.

Again, look at the ******* pics i posted. It tells you where the clutch assist/return spring is located. If you cant use common sense, thats your problem. Its so sad you need people to spoon feed you, yet you still dont get it.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

I don't see any "clutch return spring" in your pointless pictures. Nor do I see where honda says that the bearing is not in contact with the diaphragm. The freeplay should be set so that the release bearing is not pressing against the diaphragm via hydraulic force. It is preloaded against the diaphragm via mechanical spring with a whopping like...1-2lb force.

If you're referring to the "clutch assist spring" having some effect on a mechanically loaded slave cylinder then LOL @ your feeble brain.

Also...not sure what the ******* **** you're ******* swearing about like you're ******* menstruating.

Since you can't answer my simple question.....I'll assume you don't know what you're talking about.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

B serious

iTrader: (1)

This thread has gotten derailed. It's clear that Manuel has never even driven a manual and won't ever answer my super simple question.

I'm not trying to make this ugly or start a pissing contest. I will continue to be the grown man of our internet relationship.

My opinion (as I've illustrated by fact and experience), is that the noise you're describing is caused by a throw out bearing.

Start simple:

You can try and grease the point where the bearing touches the fingers....i think you may be able to finagle this with the trans in the car still. Just remove the slave cylinder and boot. See if you can reach it. Maybe it just needed grease at the contact point to stop squeaking.

Next, try replacing the throw out bearing. I realize that if its not a throw out bearing noise, you'll have to remove the trans again...but its worth a shot.

I've seen a few cars with the issue you described and the TOB was the culprit.

Just my advice. It's your car/money/time. Do what you want.

holmesnmanny

Seriously ? Can you be any more dumb ? You must think the world is still flat too. Nothing really derailed about this thread other than you not wanting to admit you're wrong in the face of mounting evidence. Apparently you think you're right and Honda is wrong.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

Ya srslybro.

I presented facts and experience and asked you a question.

You responded with name calling. Every single time. People respond with hostility when they're weak. It's because your notions are idiotic and you can't prove me wrong or answer my question.

I'm not disagreeing with the manual. I even explained that. I've been the only one explaining correctly, how things work.

And I'm the one who "thinks the world is flat"? Lol.

If I'm so dumb...why don't you answer my question?

holmesnmanny

The clutch assist spring is what pulls the bearing away from the pressure plate, provided you have the necessary free play. Ive said this over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, but you dont want to admit youre wrong. Its like talking to a brick wall.

I even proved it with illustrations and instructions directly from Honda via the Helms.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

No it doesn't, and there's nothing in the Helms saying it does. That is not the return spring's purpose. That is what I keep telling you. Freeplay does not affect the slave cylinder preload.

I've tried asking you to explain how that spring could POSSIBLY pull back the bearing, but you can't control your hormones long enough to answer the question....OR YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT

Your reading and comprehension skills are obviously weak. The manual does not indicate that the pedal's return spring SETS the freeplay or pulls the bearing away from the fingers.

Know how I know that's not what it says in the manual?

-I can read English.

-The slave cylinder preloads the fork via mechanical spring. If you actually went out and looked, you'd see this. But I'm making the assumption that you have actually seen or worked on or own a manual trans honda. I am likely incorrect in that assumption.

You're still dodging my question. Is the fork butted up against something? What is it butted up against?

holmesnmanny

You are seriously in denial. I posted and quoted directly from the Helms.

Are there fairies in the land you live in? You must believe in santa claus too.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

I can't imagine someone being this thick headed.

I'll give it one more try.

The manual states that if you set the freeplay too far, the release bearing will rest on the fingers of the clutch. Yes...but that is using hydraulic force...which will push the clutch out and make it slip. THAT is what the manual states.


Notice that the manual states not to preload the MASTER cylinder. The master cylinder being preloaded at all will act with a hydraulic force on the bearing. Hydraulic force. Not a 2lb spring force.

It still doesn't explain why in the hell the clutch assitance spring would in any way hold the bearing away from the clutch. Can you explain how this would work? If so, please do. Don't say "uhh it says so in the manual". You're reading it wrong.

CABLE clutches have a spring that pulls the bearing and fork away from the fingers. Because freeplay is set at the bearing itself.

EXTERNAL HYDRAULIC SLAVE CYLINDERS (which the prelude uses) have a spring inside of them to constantly preload the bearing onto the diaphragm with minimal force.

Clutch Slave Cylinders*|*Clutch Hydraulics*|*Automotive Clutches | AMS Automotive

This isn't enough to push the fingers in. Just enough to keep the bearing in contact.

Here's a replacement slave cylinder. Notes on the bottom for how it works. BEFORE YOU SAY "this is an aftermarket part", remember that you were under the impression that the release bearing is pulled back via a spring on the pedal. So don't try to flip flop. This is the exact same way as a stock slave cylinder works.

"The rubber boot is used to seal contaminants away from the moving parts while the release bearing maintains preloaded contact with the diaphragm spring. "

http://www.carid.com/2008-honda-acco...-21525868.html

Here's the patent information on slave cylinders that have a spring and boot combined.

http://www.google.com/patents/WO1998030810A1?cl=en

This is kind of weak...but here's a couple links to a forum discussion about preloaded clutches in Hondas.
http://www.fuelly.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13856
http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=33079

You STILL cannot answer my question. Can you move the clutch fork with everything assembled or is it already preloaded against the clutch?

If you can answer that question and prove me wrong, I'll admit I was wrong. Go out to your car and check.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

I know. I know.

"You're a dummy head. Look at the pics I posted. You are a tooth fairy."

Yeah...well....YOU'RE a tooth fairy.