98vtec

I got done with the plastigaging of the main bearings last night. I'm using ACL bearings. I have the rods done as well, but i want to measure them with the bore gauge and micrometer before i get all happy. They were all within spec as well. I got #1 rod endplay measured as well. This had me worried a little because it is just barely within the honda specs. spec is .006 - .012" and i got .011" with my feeler gauge. I guess i'm still ok.

here's the main bearing results:

#1 = .0013"
#2 = .0013"
#3 = .0012"
#4 = .0013"
#5 = .0011"

Honda spec:
#1 = .0008 - .0018"
#2 = .0008 - .0018"
#3 = .0010 - .0019"
#4 = .0005 - .0015"
#5 = .0004 - .0013"

My buddy mmuller has told me that i will want to run #3 looser and i'll need to order a honda bearing. Can anyone explain, in detail, why i would need to run #3 looser than the rest?

vinuneuro

So you're going to run one Honda bearing and the rest ACL? Why didn't you use OEM in the first place and gotten all the clearances where you want, to begin with..

mgags7

I think that blake got the ACLs with the block, maybe....

Blake I'm not quite sure why you'd want to run one looser than the rest, that doesn't really make too much sense....

kulrevon

how much was the full set of acl's?

mgags7

ACL sets usually go for around $80

OEM bearings would be about $170

md23vtec

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mgags7 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think that blake got the ACLs with the block, maybe....

Blake I'm not quite sure why you'd want to run one looser than the rest, that doesn't really make too much sense....</TD></TR></TABLE>

For reasons that will take to much to try to explain #3 cylinder does in fact run slightly leaner then any other cylinder. This discussion has been taking place all over the AllMotor and FI forums for a few years now on and off. There is a reason behind it some people ignore it others live by it and set the motor up loose on #3 for that reason. That's something you may want to do research on yourself.

Also I am huge fan of Honda OEM bearings ... 98vtec feel free to shoot me a PM I have my own opinion on this matter regarding your setup if you want it. Either way goodluck

98vtec

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vinuneuro &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So you're going to run one Honda bearing and the rest ACL? Why didn't you use OEM in the first place and gotten all the clearances where you want, to begin with..</TD></TR></TABLE>

because i have a place where i got ACL's for cheap (50 shipped). all of them fit great, except for #3 being a little tight. Running one honda bearing severely drops the amount of money spent to get the results i want.

md - you have a pm

98vtec

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by md23vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

For reasons that will take to much to try to explain #3 cylinder does in fact run slightly leaner then any other cylinder. This discussion has been taking place all over the AllMotor and FI forums for a few years now on and off. There is a reason behind it some people ignore it others live by it and set the motor up loose on #3 for that reason. That's something you may want to do research on yourself.

Also I am huge fan of Honda OEM bearings ... 98vtec feel free to shoot me a PM I have my own opinion on this matter regarding your setup if you want it. Either way goodluck </TD></TR></TABLE>

i just searched around a bit on this topic and there are posts regarding the bearing being looser, but no specified reason for it to being looser.

Would one reason for it being looser because its the main oil supply for the rest of the cylinders? Tigher = less oil supply and looser allows the main oil supply to supply the other bearings with ample oil?

thats alot of supply

Hawkze_2.3

Interesting md23vtec....that must be why #3 also runs hotter.

This may be stupid, but maybe since #3 is in the middle, it has to take more stress than the other bearings and journals. Heat, vibration, etc...

alterdcreations

swap out the bearings from another one....#1 for #3

98vtec

that sounds like a good idea. I'll swap them out when i plastigage again.

117

That'll work if the journals are exactly the same size, which is a bit doubtful.

If it were me, I'd want to run closer to the loose end of the spec, but since you're right in the middle, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

md23vtec

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hawkze_2.3 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Interesting md23vtec....that must be why #3 also runs hotter.
This may be stupid, but maybe since #3 is in the middle, it has to take more stress than the other bearings and journals. Heat, vibration, etc...</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's correct lean = more heat. I received about 8 IM's about this topic since I posted that comment. If you put an EGT probe on all 4 cylinders (atleast 1 1/2 away from the head) you will se that no matter how you tune the car its still going to have a higher temp in cyl #3.


To the member who said I am full of **** and has no idea what I am talking about. I will not have an IM battle with you if that's what your looking for. This is why I don't post as much as I could because of useless talk like this with no proof to back up you say. No I do not know everything I never claimed too. I feel I know more then the average guy and have done more then most guys have and have had alot with hands on experience and my own trial and error. That is all nothing more nothing less. If you don't like what I have to say or agree with it TOO BADD!!! I am here in the prelude forum to stay

Hawkze_2.3

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by md23vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">To the member who said I am full of **** and has no idea what I am talking about. I will not have an IM battle with you if that's what your looking for. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Who questioned md23vtec!!!???? BAN 4 LIFE!!

md23vtec

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hawkze_2.3 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Who questioned md23vtec!!!???? BAN 4 LIFE!!

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Haha that's not needed I just don't mind sharing my views on most things. I have helped out a alot of people. The ones that know me personally know me will agree yes I am a total Dick!!! But I do my best to be helpfull when I can and try to give the best knowledge I am able to supply.

hu

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by md23vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

To the member who said I am full of **** and has no idea what I am talking about. I will not have an IM battle with you if that's what your looking for.</TD></TR></TABLE>


I won't do it again, I promise.


Just kidding. It wasn't me, I swear

Please don't stop posting md23vtec. Your knowledge is definitely needed around here

lude98SH

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hu &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


I won't do it again, I promise.


Just kidding. It wasn't me, I swear

Please don't stop posting md23vtec. Your knowledge is definitely needed around here </TD></TR></TABLE>

x2

98vtec

would it be worth just taking each bearing and plastigaging #3 and use the loosest one?

117

Are you plastigauging all 5 sets at the same time?

Rosko

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by md23vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
That's correct lean = more heat. I received about 8 IM's about this topic since I posted that comment. If you put an EGT probe on all 4 cylinders (atleast 1 1/2 away from the head) you will se that no matter how you tune the car its still going to have a higher temp in cyl #3.
</TD></TR></TABLE>


If thats true then the clearances on #3 would open up even bigger since the extra heat would cause the block to expand. Not sayin your wrong on that cyl running lean, could very well be, but I don't think its the reason to run a looser clearance on that bearing.

mgags7

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 117 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That'll work if the journals are exactly the same size, which is a bit doubtful.

If it were me, I'd want to run closer to the loose end of the spec, but since you're right in the middle, I wouldn't worry about it too much. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Exactly, I would agree to just take the middle of the road on this one, technically your #3 argument may hold some water, but I don't think such a small difference will have much effect.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 117 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Are you plastigauging all 5 sets at the same time?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'd like to know the idea behind this question, is there some consequince to only doing one or all at the same time?

117

It's a bit difficult to visualize, but what if the bearings on #1 and #5 are thick enough that the crank is not touching the bearing between the crank and the engine (assuming the engine is upside down when you're doing this) on #3. Since you're measuring the clearance on #3 using plastigauge between the main cap bearing and the crank, if the crank journal is not touching the bearing between the engine and the crank, the plastigauge will give you a reading that is too tight.

I've never actually attempted to measure the difference, but it seems to me that if you use plastigauge, you need to measure two journals at a time, so you know the crank is resting on the lower half of the bearing, maybe do, #1 & #5, then #1 and #4, then #2 and #5, then #1 and #3, or something like that.

md23vtec

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rosko &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


If thats true then the clearances on #3 would open up even bigger since the extra heat would cause the block to expand. Not sayin your wrong on that cyl running lean, could very well be, but I don't think its the reason to run a looser clearance on that bearing.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ok here is the thing..... people say run them at minimum spec because of the #3 cylinder running slightly leaner then the rest and there own reasoning but some actually run them at at max spec on #3 (which I don't see the point of because that will cause even more heat) and chance for failure but I am by no means an engine builder but I have put together a few in my day. There are so many variables when it comes to this its not even funny. From N/A build to an FI build, what type of gas your running, compression, clearances bearing and piston to wall, and my favorite and the most arguable is going to be tuning.

For most builds this will not be a factor but the guys trying to get everylast hp and run the motor on that fine line of blowing up and making killer power. These are the ones that are going to be affected by this from everything I have read and seen. I had this discussion and was privileged enough to here Jason hunt, and a few others have a convo about this a while ago and I did not know this was even an issue I am not an expect I just know it's an actual concern that alot of people don't know about or even know is a real issue

Speedra500

that is very interesting that it runs leaner, but has anyone tried the individual cylinder fuel correction on cylinder 3?

98vtec

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Speedra500 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">that is very interesting that it runs leaner, but has anyone tried the individual cylinder fuel correction on cylinder 3?</TD></TR></TABLE>

im sure people have. I just dont have any experience with it.