PreIudeSI

actually andy, i think it was prelittlelude who did the hybrid first but correct me if i'm wrong.

anyway, i'm going to be doing this hybrid this winter as i have a spun up h23 in the garage with some old parts left over from a long time ago when i was gonna go turbo h23 but backed out.

My question i guess is where did you get that caliper?

looks nice and i'm going to be using h23 9.0:1 comp pistons so i'll need to be doing some measuring. Rough estimate of the total compression would be around 9:1 with the f23 block, h23 head and the dish pistons. i dunno though until i actually measure out the volume of the dish on the pistons though. What'd you get for the measurement of the displacement of one combustion chamber of the h23 head?

The_Head

Subscribing to thread, and sending $5 to the Pirate

G U E C O

good ****

alphajesse

The reason for the FRM liners in the H-series was to stiffen the block with the ultra thin liners that 87mm pistons leave you with.

Hopefully this doesn't happen, but I forsee issues with your cylinders staying round in the longer term.

Shakes

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by The_Head &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> sending $5 to the Pirate</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95 lude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I sent you 10 bucks on paypal man.</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AndyD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">PayPal sent. </TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PirateMcFred &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Holy **** ladies and gentlemen, AndyD is the coolest guy on this board! This guy must really want to see some dyno numbers. He actually Paypaled me $5! Now I just need $25 to get this thing dynoed. </TD></TR></TABLE>

and i sent the final $10. lets see some numbers now

thehondaguru

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Shakes &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
and i sent the final $10. lets see some numbers now </TD></TR></TABLE>

Cool Man I agree. Lets see some #'s and SHIOT!

PirateMcFred

I tried to contact the dyno shop today to schedule dyno time but they were closed for the weekend. I will give them a call early Monday morning and see if they can fit me in without an appointment.

I have never seen the H-T community come together like they have for this. I really appreciate the funding to take the edge off the total expense. Those who donated should be recognized for their generosity (and their impatience lol). AndyD, 95 Lude, The_Head, and Shakes, if either of you need anything just let me know, I will see what I can do. I can not forget about @ries either for offfering actual dyno time even though I don't live in SoCal.

As soon as I dyno I will post results with more info on the general setup, ECU, exhaust, PS, oil, wheels/tires, etc..

Thanks again.
Pirate

pentaq

Great job with the engine.
But it can't be the G-series engine though because they're 5 cylinder ones

thehondaguru

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PirateMcFred &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I tried to contact the dyno shop today to schedule dyno time but they were closed for the weekend. I will give them a call early Monday morning and see if they can fit me in without an appointment.

I have never seen the H-T community come together like they have for this. I really appreciate the funding to take the edge off the total expense. Those who donated should be recognized for their generosity (and their impatience lol). AndyD, 95 Lude, The_Head, and Shakes, if either of you need anything just let me know, I will see what I can do. I can not forget about @ries either for offfering actual dyno time even though I don't live in SoCal.

As soon as I dyno I will post results with more info on the general setup, ECU, exhaust, PS, oil, wheels/tires, etc..

Thanks again.
Pirate</TD></TR></TABLE>

Cool! I will be waiting

AndyD

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PirateMcFred &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I tried to contact the dyno shop today to schedule dyno time but they were closed for the weekend. I will give them a call early Monday morning and see if they can fit me in without an appointment.

I have never seen the H-T community come together like they have for this. I really appreciate the funding to take the edge off the total expense. Those who donated should be recognized for their generosity (and their impatience lol). AndyD, 95 Lude, The_Head, and Shakes, if either of you need anything just let me know, I will see what I can do. I can not forget about @ries either for offfering actual dyno time even though I don't live in SoCal.

As soon as I dyno I will post results with more info on the general setup, ECU, exhaust, PS, oil, wheels/tires, etc..

Thanks again.
Pirate</TD></TR></TABLE>

No problem at all, man. You know what's funny. I am not suprised that Chris (95 Lude) and Doug (Shakes) stepped up to help. I've deal with both of them in the past. Both a really good dudes.

Can't wait to see the dyno.

thehondaguru

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AndyD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

No problem at all, man. You know what's funny. I am not suprised that Chris (95 Lude) and Doug (Shakes) stepped up to help. I've deal with both of them in the past. Both a really good dudes.

Can't wait to see the dyno. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah I saw that you put in some money and I though "man I cant let Andy show me up like this!" SO I had to out bid him

And I am just that nice

The_Head

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PirateMcFred &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have never seen the H-T community come together like they have for this. I really appreciate the funding to take the edge off the total expense. Those who donated should be recognized for their generosity (and their impatience lol). AndyD, 95 Lude, The_Head, and Shakes, if either of you need anything just let me know, I will see what I can do. I can not forget about @ries either for offfering actual dyno time even though I don't live in SoCal.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Great ideas deserve at least a little help.

00LudeLover

i think it is time to call for a nice big H-T hug.


...


or kegger...same thing.

Sam1am26

wow... i haven't been on in a while cause Ive been moving and working a lot but this is an awesome thread to come back too ... I spun the bearings in my h23 vtec a few months ago and the car has been sitting but i just started tearing it apart today (hence the motivation to get back on honda-tech)... and i have a torn apart f23a1 sitting right next to my car... so I should have a turboed f23a1/h22 hybrid running in two to three weeks... I'll post pics once it starts coming together... This thread gave me a lot of info and the success of your motor just gives me more confidence...

thehondaguru

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sam1am26 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wow... i haven't been on in a while cause Ive been moving and working a lot but this is an awesome thread to come back too ... I spun the bearings in my h23 vtec a few months ago and the car has been sitting but i just started tearing it apart today (hence the motivation to get back on honda-tech)... and i have a torn apart f23a1 sitting right next to my car... so I should have a turboed f23a1/h22 hybrid running in two to three weeks... I'll post pics once it starts coming together... This thread gave me a lot of info and the success of your motor just gives me more confidence...</TD></TR></TABLE>

****** SWEET!

Sorry to hear about your h23 vtec getting funar
I dont have one anymore either

ShaunRR

Jeez, H23's seem to be VERY prone to spun bearings.

satan_srv

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by alphajesse &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The reason for the FRM liners in the H-series was to stiffen the block with the ultra thin liners that 87mm pistons leave you with.

Hopefully this doesn't happen, but I forsee issues with your cylinders staying round in the longer term.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I am also curious about running FRM compatible pistons in a non-FRM block...since forged pistons wreck FRM, wouldn't a steel bore damage an H22a piston?

hmmm...

thehondaguru

hmm good point.???

ShaunRR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by satan_srv &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am also curious about running FRM compatible pistons in a non-FRM block...since forged pistons wreck FRM, wouldn't a steel bore damage an H22a piston?

hmmm...</TD></TR></TABLE>

They are just regular cast pistons. Forged pistons cannot be used with FRM sleeves because of how they expand and contract with temparature change. From what I have seen, even stock pistons seems to be hard on FRM sleeves, although not as bad as forged pistons of course.

vinuneuro

why did honda use frm in the h22?

PreIudeSI

probably because it's strong and light. I think the s2k engine has frm sleeves also not sure though.

ShaunRR

Here is a REALLY good thread on the subject:

http://m24x.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=1014

00LudeLover

why did honda use FRM in the h22, because it is better than not having them, when you arent modding your engine.

it is actually a really good idea..untill you run things like forged pistons or anything like that.

under normal circulstances, they oxidize less and last longer. plus they are lighter.

maybe hondas arent made for boost????????


nah....they are.

satan_srv

FRM was created to allow the use of a larger bore on the same cylinder spacing. They took an F block that was maxxed out at 85mm and added FRM sleeves allowing them to go thinner between the sleeves and get out to 87mm. Same technology allowed the NSX to go from 90mm to 93mm to go from 3.0 to 3.2L and retain their compact engine designs.

S2000 uses FRM as well as the block was based on H/F dimensions and need frm to get out to 87mm

PirateMcFred

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vinuneuro &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> why did honda use frm in the h22?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Everyone thinks that it was due to the strength of the sleeves at 87mm. I am not saying that it isn't but the Prelude has been a testbed of new Honda technology (VTEC, ATTS, FRM, 4WS etc). So it may have been more of an experiment in engineering than the fast that they *had* to use it.

When they build tthe B20B/Z they did not say, "well we expanded the bore another 3mm so we should use FRM." They just manufactured a one-piece iron casting and called it a day. Also if cooling and longevity was also the case then I would imagine that people sleeving and running 25 PSI Boost on H22's would have huge problems keeping the bores concentric as well as being able to keep them cool. I do not know what honda intended and I am not about to argue about it.

Also there are lots of people that are overboring their B-series 1mm for NA applications without resleeving and they seem to get away with it. If my sleeves do end up with problems then it is pretty inexpensive to replace the shortblock. I can replace a lot of shortblocks for $1100 that I would spend on sleeving/boring/honing aftermarket sleeves. If I cannot run 87mm then I can probably run the 86mm and get some RSX pistons, OR I can scrap the whole idea and go back to my trusty H22.

And another thing, it is ******* 9:30 and the damn shop is not picking up the phone. I was up late last night checking valve clearance and updating the ignition tables on my ROM and then I got up at 7:30 to swap my wheels and check fluid levels so that I could get a call in early and try to get in a quick hour of Dyno time while it was still cool. If I can get a hold of them today I will probably put the dyno off until tomarrow.

Pirate