Just installed an SMSP Header, Question about Tuining
09-26-2006, 08:35 AM
#29
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,682
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (CaliLuder)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CaliLuder »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Seems like people are saying not to go WOT until it fully tuned. But should be fine as a DD.</TD></TR></TABLE>
If you want to be 100% safe, just don't run out the tach a lot. I'd be relatively suprised if your AFs are going to be fatally bad though.
Another option is to run by a dyno and get a couple runs in with a wideband sensor. Shouldn't cost too much more than a tank of premium
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94vtirozguy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i gained 15hp with the header installed, and then another with 10hp tuning</TD></TR></TABLE>
Sounds about right. My car (SMS header + exhaust, scary "tune") was making about 20whp more than the stock preludes at the dyno day. (175/180whp vs 155-160whp).
Made 10whp over a guy with I/Mugen header/cat/mugen exhaust and a stock ECU.
If you want to be 100% safe, just don't run out the tach a lot. I'd be relatively suprised if your AFs are going to be fatally bad though.
Another option is to run by a dyno and get a couple runs in with a wideband sensor. Shouldn't cost too much more than a tank of premium
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94vtirozguy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i gained 15hp with the header installed, and then another with 10hp tuning</TD></TR></TABLE>
Sounds about right. My car (SMS header + exhaust, scary "tune") was making about 20whp more than the stock preludes at the dyno day. (175/180whp vs 155-160whp).
Made 10whp over a guy with I/Mugen header/cat/mugen exhaust and a stock ECU.
09-26-2006, 10:40 AM
#31
New User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (tegman85)
If the ecu's reading and adj fuel via the o2 sensor during part throttle, isn't that closed loop and when at wide open throttle it ignores the o2 reading because it goes full rich/open loop.
09-26-2006, 01:24 PM
#32
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: li, ny
Posts: 718
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (A Blue Lude)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by A Blue Lude »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sounds about right. My car (SMS header + exhaust, scary "tune") was making about 20whp more than the stock preludes at the dyno day. (175/180whp vs 155-160whp).
Made 10whp over a guy with I/Mugen header/cat/mugen exhaust and a stock ECU. </TD></TR></TABLE>
what are u using to tune? i thought that a good header like that + exhaust and intake and a decent tune could give u like 180-190 whp, while a good one would put u around 190-200. is it because u didnt have an intake?
i'm making about 168-178whp with i/e/dc header, aem pullies, removed egr and balance shaft belt, and 2 step colder plugs (should take away about 5whp), untuned.
Made 10whp over a guy with I/Mugen header/cat/mugen exhaust and a stock ECU. </TD></TR></TABLE>
what are u using to tune? i thought that a good header like that + exhaust and intake and a decent tune could give u like 180-190 whp, while a good one would put u around 190-200. is it because u didnt have an intake?
i'm making about 168-178whp with i/e/dc header, aem pullies, removed egr and balance shaft belt, and 2 step colder plugs (should take away about 5whp), untuned.
09-26-2006, 02:08 PM
#33
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,682
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (95hprelude)
It depends. I really don't see a I/H/E H22 getting to 200whp unless it's a JDM H22 with the typical swap treatment (no BS/PS/AC), no cat, tuned and on the right dyno.
I ended up getting 182whp tuned w/open stock intake pipe. That's roughly 25whp greater than what other stock 5th gens on this dyno have put down, and expecting more than that out of such simple mods is probably slightly wishful thinking.
I know a few weeks later I heard of a I/E JDM H22 in a civic putting down low 180whp on the same dyno. Way to break my heart, world.
I ended up with 188whp and a horribly broken torque curve after I addded cams. Yay cams!
I ended up getting 182whp tuned w/open stock intake pipe. That's roughly 25whp greater than what other stock 5th gens on this dyno have put down, and expecting more than that out of such simple mods is probably slightly wishful thinking.
I know a few weeks later I heard of a I/E JDM H22 in a civic putting down low 180whp on the same dyno. Way to break my heart, world.
I ended up with 188whp and a horribly broken torque curve after I addded cams. Yay cams!
09-26-2006, 07:18 PM
#35
Senior Member
Re: (95hprelude)
I put an I/H/E and bored TB on a car without tuning once. It used to melt primary O2 sensors.
You might be running lean at WOT. Be a little careful. In general I wouldn't worry too much about it, especially for highway cruising etc., since it will run closed loop at part throttle.
You might be running lean at WOT. Be a little careful. In general I wouldn't worry too much about it, especially for highway cruising etc., since it will run closed loop at part throttle.
09-26-2006, 07:46 PM
#36
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,682
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (95hprelude)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95hprelude »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what kind of cams? also what was that 182whp dyno run tuned by?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Crome, Crower IIs.
Feel free to PM me if you have any questions...I don't want to hijack this thread too badly.
Crome, Crower IIs.
Feel free to PM me if you have any questions...I don't want to hijack this thread too badly.
09-26-2006, 09:53 PM
#37
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You're wrong.
Improving an engine's VE will cause a speed density car to run lean. An SMSP header is a good way to improve your engine's VE by a fair margin.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Enough to do any damage? No. Your point? Useless. All you're doing is scaring the guy by saying a bunch of bullshit that makes no difference. It's ok to run an SMSP header for a couple months untuned.
I like how you make it a point to say "you're wrong" (totally rad).. keep up the good work.
Improving an engine's VE will cause a speed density car to run lean. An SMSP header is a good way to improve your engine's VE by a fair margin.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Enough to do any damage? No. Your point? Useless. All you're doing is scaring the guy by saying a bunch of bullshit that makes no difference. It's ok to run an SMSP header for a couple months untuned.
I like how you make it a point to say "you're wrong" (totally rad).. keep up the good work.
09-26-2006, 10:03 PM
#38
moderator emeritus
Re: (Attaus)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Attaus »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Enough to do any damage? No. Your point? Useless. All you're doing is scaring the guy by saying a bunch of bullshit that makes no difference. It's ok to run an SMSP header for a couple months untuned.
I like how you make it a point to say "you're wrong" (totally rad).. keep up the good work. </TD></TR></TABLE>
considering he is 100% right.......
You seem to be one of those guys that doesnt quite understand some things but tries not to let other people know that.
I like how you make it a point to say "you're wrong" (totally rad).. keep up the good work.
</TD></TR></TABLE>considering he is 100% right.......
You seem to be one of those guys that doesnt quite understand some things but tries not to let other people know that.
09-26-2006, 10:07 PM
#39
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,682
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (Attaus)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Attaus »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Enough to do any damage? No. Your point? Useless. All you're doing is scaring the guy by saying a bunch of bullshit that makes no difference. It's ok to run an SMSP header for a couple months untuned.
I like how you make it a point to say "you're wrong" (totally rad).. keep up the good work. </TD></TR></TABLE>
It's a little scary when people that don't know what they're talking about give advice.
Suggesting that putting a good aftermarket header on a Honda won't lean it out relative to its previous AF ratio is completely incorrect, unless you're talking about the new MAF Hondas (although I don't know if they're pure MAF or still use SD, or whatever).
If you had bothered to read, I also said that he should be okay. But there certainly is a slight chance of having issues, because his engine will be running much leaner in the top end than it did when it rolled out of the factory.
Modified by A Blue Lude at 11:18 PM 9/26/2006
I like how you make it a point to say "you're wrong" (totally rad).. keep up the good work.
</TD></TR></TABLE>It's a little scary when people that don't know what they're talking about give advice.
Suggesting that putting a good aftermarket header on a Honda won't lean it out relative to its previous AF ratio is completely incorrect, unless you're talking about the new MAF Hondas (although I don't know if they're pure MAF or still use SD, or whatever).
If you had bothered to read, I also said that he should be okay. But there certainly is a slight chance of having issues, because his engine will be running much leaner in the top end than it did when it rolled out of the factory.
Modified by A Blue Lude at 11:18 PM 9/26/2006
09-26-2006, 10:23 PM
#40
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (Attaus)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Attaus »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's ok to run an SMSP header for a couple months untuned.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well .what will happen after a couple of months???
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well .what will happen after a couple of months???
09-26-2006, 10:29 PM
#41
moderator emeritus
Re: (cb7-R)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cb7-R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well .what will happen after a couple of months???</TD></TR></TABLE>
arnold will appear and say "you are terminated"
arnold will appear and say "you are terminated"
09-27-2006, 04:03 AM
#42
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: land of the sheep, home of the hypocrite
Posts: 2,072
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Just installed an SMSP Header, Question about Tuining (CaliLuder)
It could lean out the top end enough to cause problems.
09-27-2006, 11:52 AM
#44
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,682
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Just installed an SMSP Header, Question about Tuining (CaliLuder)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CaliLuder »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what symtoms should I be looking for to know if the motor is running to lean</TD></TR></TABLE>
Looking at your plugs can shed some light on what's going on in there.
But I would check to see what a wideband O2 sensor says to be sure.
If you tell yourself you won't beat on the car you should be okay. I survived a couple months of with an AF curve that looked like this
and with a ECU that was giving the engine 37* of ignition advance in VTEC. But I was driving the car like a grandma would: self imposed 5000rpm redline, etc, etc.
Looking back at it, though, I wouldn't do it that way again. And I can't be sure nothing bad happened to my engine.
Looking at your plugs can shed some light on what's going on in there.
But I would check to see what a wideband O2 sensor says to be sure.
If you tell yourself you won't beat on the car you should be okay. I survived a couple months of with an AF curve that looked like this
and with a ECU that was giving the engine 37* of ignition advance in VTEC. But I was driving the car like a grandma would: self imposed 5000rpm redline, etc, etc.
Looking back at it, though, I wouldn't do it that way again. And I can't be sure nothing bad happened to my engine.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post