Matgallis

Hey Guys,

When I go to start the motor, it starts with some ease, then bogs a little and then dies. I just finished putting the head back on and now it's not starting correctly.



I have:

A) Checked the timing belt position, it's perfect
B) Played with the distro. It's on correctly as far as I can tell


What else could be going wrong here? The idle is very rough and very weak once the motor gets started. Very strange...

Matgallis

any help? Could it be a bad distributer? I heard I don't need to worry about the distributer being adjusted since my motor is OBDII and will itself. Is this correct?

SixxT9

Not sure about the distributor or not, but you might want to check your EGR and make sure all the ports on it are clean. Also, check for any vacuum leaks.

Did you reassemble everything with your head correctly? Everything to spec?

Matgallis

EGR valve is clean, same with the egr ports. The head was assembled by a shop so it should be within specs

SixxT9

Assembled at the shop? Did it run fine when you dropped it off? If so, how long after you picked up the car did this happen? Might be able to take it back and have them deal with it.

Matgallis

Oh sorry I misunderstood what you were asking. The valves/springs/retainers/seals were all assembled at a shop.

I put the head on, cams, gears, etc all to spec. Possibly a timing issue? If I had the cams/crank lined up correctly, why would the timing be off?

mgags7

Mat,

Since this is a fresh rebuild, a few things come to mind to check. If you give it gas will it stay on or does it just die anyway? Has any of the electrical system changed? ECU, wire harnesses, etc?

Make very sure you have compression across all of the cylinders.

Matgallis

Mags,

The electrical system was unchanged, ecu wire harness etc are the same. I did knock loose a censor right above the oil filter but used a tiny amount of jbweld just to secure it fully.

If i give the motor gas after I start it does stay on, just feels rough and weak. What's your thought on the revving after the motor is started?


I will do a compression check and a leakdown test... sigh

mgags7

If it takes that much to keep it on, something is obviously wrong, so I'm not sure that that really says much. Does the check engine light come on?

Matgallis

There's no check engine light. The timing is obviously bad, either a cylinder or two isn't firing or the vavles need further adjusting. Going to do a valve adjustment tonight then see how she runs.

mgags7

Meh, a valve adjustment isn't gonna do that much harm unless it is seriously out.

Are you absolutely sure the firing order is correct?

Matgallis

Did a valve adjustment, seemed to help slightly... The check engine light did come on, it threw code 22, but that shouldn't keep my engine from running right? When i got it to idle, it was bouncing, rough and really just felt bad. How badly would the ignition timing have to be to have this kind of result?


The firing order is correct as i've seen on here
This is the order I have it from the passenger side.

3 4

1 2

djarchitect

I had a similiar issue and it was my fuel pump relay.

PirateMcFred

I'd check the cam timing relative to the crank. then I'd check your fuel pressure, ignition timing/firing order and the valve lash.

Pull the fuse to reset the ECU too in case it learned some bad behaviour.

Matgallis

I reset the cam timing to the crank last night, it appeared off by less than 1 tooth. It didn't help it run any better


What's the best way going around to check your fuel pressure?

PirateMcFred

You can beg/borrow/buy a spare fuel rail with a pressure guage. IIRC there's an endplate on the H22 fuel rail that a couple 10mm bolts will undo. I'd make a new plate and tap it 1/4" NPT and get a cheap pressure guage for a whirl. But I've got that capability so it's pretty trivial.

Matgallis

So I just did a leak down test using an air compressor (140psi) and a fitted tire gun thingy. The pressure seemed to hold really well, strong enough to turn the motor over and forcing air out through the spark plug on all 4 cylinders.

One thing I did notice was that my spark plugs were really nasty, even after running for just a few minutes (total). Am i burning lean or rich with this evidence?

hmm i don't have access to a spare fuel rail anywhere... Have some searching around to do for some answers.

thegatekeeper14

im having same issue

Matgallis

So some updates:

I still am throwing code 22... Can't figure out why since the wiring is correct and the car isn't enabling vtec. So i'm a little lost on that...


BUT in other area... the spark plugs I pulled were really really dirty. I mean it looked like they had 150k miles of grim built up on it (more look soot). So im burning rich correct? I also noticed some liquid (Praying it's gas) on one of the plugs.

Other news, I gave the engine a small rev to about 4k rpms and I noticed a LOT of white smoke coming out of the exhaust. Makes me really nervous considering the head gasket is BRAND new and is from honda...Also when pulling one of the plugs some smoke was coming from the cylinder and it smelled kinda sweet. I didn't see any milky look fluids in the oil but i have to check the coolant and see if there's any oil in there before I can rule out a bad head gasket, or even worse, a cracked block.

Matgallis

bump

PirateMcFred

Yeah, that sounds like it's not good. Post up a pic of the crap on the plug. It sounds like it's running really rich if the plugs are coated in soot (black). Also do whatever you can to eliminate the CEL code.

Have someone romp on the gas and go to the back of the car and see if the smoke really smells like coolant.

140 PSI seems low to me but it varies from brand to brand on the tester. You can usually take a compression tester, plug it into a cylinder, and plug the other end into a pressurized air line and then watch the radiator for bubbles to diagnose a bad head gasket.

Matgallis

I just did that to test the head gasket, got no bubbles out of the radiator and the compression felt pretty good.

Ordered a new vtec switch to see if that code will be solved... Here's the dirty plug

h2b eg

iTrader: (1)

did u ever burp out the coolant

Matgallis

hmm crap didn't even think that could make a difference? Why would it?


On another another note. THe first start after it's been sitting for awhile is normal, then right to death. After the initalstart it does not start well.

h2b eg

iTrader: (1)

i dont know about the soot on the plugs but if your coolant isnt burped the car with have the wom baa's... it will rev up then cut fuel and bounce the rpms.. might help with the not idleing