Joshyboy2929

Hey I might buy a f20b but I just want to make sure it's the manual motor not the auto. There's no vin but there is the f20b stamp and under is reads 2703301.
All help is appreciated thanks!

snobordboy

Where did you get it, as most engines from inporters come with either a clutch and flywheel or a torque plate still attached.

Joshyboy2929

It has a manual tranny, it's a private sale from some guy but I want to make sure it's not just an automatic motor with manual tranny

nemesis25

Auto engines don't exist ever.

preludeNApower

Auto has smaller tb with 2 hook up points

Joshyboy2929

Please don't post if you don't know what you're talking about the auto engine came with 180hp the manual with 200hp .. Trannys are interchangeable

Joshyboy2929

Yea but it doesn't even have the f20b tb is has an h22 one right nkw

Sparksman

Does it have stock cams? The F20B manual version came with Type-S cams, although I never owned a set but Ive heard they have a blueish tint to them. Pulling and measuring the cams would be the most accurate way of telling by far.

holmesnmanny

Does the block have a vin on it or no ?

1funryd

The engines are the same whether its hooked up to the auto transmission or manual.
The difference will be in the ECU tuning for the auto transmissiom, and the fact that a auto will have a TCU as well.

So, to re-iterate there is no such thing as an automatic specifically made engine. Don't get it twisted.

Same motor.

Sparksman

Im pretty sure the "automatic" version just came with a smaller TB, and less aggressive cams and valve-train.

I think the confusion is Honda tailored the engine to better suit the automatic. But yes you two are correct there is no physical difference between the two engines other then attached parts.

My Vtec model came with factory front fogs, and every other series 4th gen did not. Doesnt mean they are different cars, its just that they came differently equipped from the factory. Same for the engine, the F20B's that came with the 5spd DID come with better parts.

Easy way to think about it-- imagine if all base model H22's were automatics and only automatics, and any and all red tops were 5spd and only 5spd. Same exact engines, just the "better version" is only available with 5spd transmissions, even sharing the same stamp "H22a" as both base and red top do. For the F20B though there is no valve cover color coding identifier as for the H series. Which makes it a tad harder to tell what you are looking at.

holmesnmanny

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_F_engine assuming wikipedia is correct they have different internals

Joshyboy2929

This is exactly why I'm only interested in the manual version... I'm just not sure how to tell it's actually from a manual setup at this point

Joshyboy2929

No, internally they're a little different

BergRacing21

If it's a matter of 20 crank-hp what the f--k does it matter? you're not going to tell the difference anyway. And i'm assuming you're going to mod it? so are you not touching the internals at all?

Sparksman

20 hp is a bit, I think I could feel a 20hp gain. Engine importers seem to think it makes a difference, $3,000 for a euro-r or Type-S, but $1,000 for a base.


Agreed, it would be more cost effective building a base to out perform a red top of a H22. But in the case of the F20B there is about $200 dollar difference not $2K, so why not make sure you get 20hp more version? I would!

holmesnmanny

20hp difference is downgrading from h22a1 to b18c1 difference

1funryd

Right here ^^^^...

You can easily make that up in some bolt on mods and tuning.

Its no a big deal unless you are racing this motor for competition and big money, but if its just for bragging rights, its pointless.

But its your money, so get what you want, it just does not make sense to those of us who know what is what.

Sparksman

Make it up with mods and tuning... How much will that cost to achieve the 20hp? A decent header, even a rep is still $350-$500 and MAYBE see 20bhp after a tune, type-s cams are $300 alone, not including new springs. Lets say he already has a tunable ECU, its still a few hundred to tune it at a shop.

It is ONLY $124 more for the manual 20+hp version then the other. Please tell me how in the world you're going to get him 20hp for only $124 dollars....? ---vvv

http://www.hmotorsonline.com/shop/sc...age&item=30013

If you're going to pay damn near the same amount of money, why would you settle for the lesser of the two? Doesnt make sense to me... for less money you could make more HP if you start with the better platform.

1funryd

Really?

Assuming he is purchasing this motor for a replacement and not a race application what is the point really?

I think I made it very clear, no need to be so damn nit picky for an assumed 20hp loss, when in the real world its not going to do any bit of good.

At some point people need to realize that having this motor over this other motor is just nonsense when in the end he is probably going to change things to it and maybe add power adders.

So many young people just do not get it, it does not matter. Your going to tune and add stuff so why pay more for something he or she is going to change down the road anyways???

Use your logical brain and not the fast and furious bulls...

If he is only going to stick with stock components and wants the alleged 20hp of the supposed different manual version of this motor, fine so be it.
But I can guarantee he is going to change stuff which he could have put the $124 or whatever you posted to those upgrades that matter.

And if he turbo charges this motor, then everything we just debated just went out the window because everything is going to change regardless.

holmesnmanny

the only person being nitpicky is you and the other guy... if you want to choose a lower hp engine just because, thats your business, but dont get mad when people post here asking reasonable questions expecting to get reasonable answers without being bitched at just because

ESP.net

Manual Version only has the Type S/Euro R cams and valve springs/retainers.

Throttle body could be smaller on Auto? May also have kick down?

Blue Tint on cams means nothing

There probably is atleast 15-20 hp with the cam difference

Measure the cams to tell vtec lobe. I have the specs.

I had purchased Manual F20B head off craigslist for cheap... Cams same spec as Euro R/Type S. Swapped them in my H23V with the matching valve springs and retainers.

BergRacing21

my point is...it's CRANK horsepower it's bullshit to begin with..it's a number the manufacture throws out there, to look flashy. I would almost be willing to bet you stack both motors up with the same amount of mods that motor is probably not out performing the other by 20hp. If it was WHEEL horsepower we're talking then fine. And just like 1funny said if that's what he wants it for, the oh it's got "20 more hp factor" so be it. Ignore what i said...i just don't know why this is a thread or for the matter the person selling it doesn't know what it came off of. So if you're getting it for a deal take a chance...you said it yourself $200 isn't $2,000. There's not that much of a price difference to be so worried about 20 CRANK hp

BergRacing21

OR just buy it from someone who knows exactly what it came off of. Plain and simple obviously there's no real tell tale signs here to tell the difference between the two.

Sparksman

So what you're telling me is crank HP and Whp have no correlation? They are not directly related? I respectfully think that is a bunch of BS... HP is HP... All hp is derived from crank hp, whp is the effect not the cause. So a 220hp euro-r head to head with 180hp f20b will be about the same as well? If 20hp is meaningless what's 40hp..? Hell why don't we all rock sohc f22's becuase apaerently crank hp doesnt matter.