mgags7

Yes i have searched and no i didnt find the answer i want......i did find that gains are seen by removing the butterfly plate and making a gasket to cover the low rpm runners....

my question is what to make the gasket out of....

i dont feel safe with normal gasket paper b/c it could rip and go inside easily....

but then again i think sheet metal would get very hot and negatively effect the whole cold air thing.....i also thought about the fact that the whole manifold is metal so what difference will it make.....i cant decide either way so now i am left with no gasket and no hp gains

anyone have any input???

thanks

Daboi630

where exactly did you find that there are gains?

i gotta search but i know he posted in the Dyno Page. he thought he would be helping his car by making this gasket. h22 + skunk2 stage 2 cams = 17x whp

edit: Found it

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SilverEk3dr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My dyno.

Skunk2 stage II's
SS high compression valves.
Skunk2 springs.
Skunk2 titanium retainers.
Skunk2 camgears.
Hotshot 4-1 header
Removed butterflied from intake.
Shortram intake
Hondata s200.
Dyno'd in 3rd gear.



As you may already know. I made a gasket that covered up the 4 "short" runners in the intake. So I am sure that this dyno doenst do justice to the way my car runs. I havent went back to retune since. It went 14.20@97 on 17" street tires @ 2700 with me. Imagine it in an eg hatch @2000 pounds even.

P.s. The full swap is for sale


Modified by SilverEk3dr at 3:18 AM 12/5/2003</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hawkze_2.3

Where did you read that? Covering up half of the runners will kill your top-end.

mgags7

i cant remember where i saw it, but it definately was there....hmmm.....you would think that blocking some of the runners would kill top end, but i have heard otherwise....im gonna look around a bit more but im pretty much spent on searching at this point....

Hawkze_2.3

I know it will. Having smaller runners makes more low-end power, but as the RPMs go up, the engine needs more air, so you want bigger runners. The 2-stage IM accomplishes both of these concepts.

Here's my opinion: If you have a badass all-motor setup or a forced induction setup, you will probably benifit from taking out the butterflies, but for a lightly modded daily driver, the missing low-end doesn't make up for a negotiable amount of mid/high-end power.

SuperSlow

I have read that removing them may net you something little at the cost of lots down low, but did not read about blocking off the short runners too...

codeh22a4

I REMOVE THE BUTTERFLIES ON MY H22 ON MY 99 BASE I IT RUNS LIKE KRAZY!!!

PrettyLude

you will lose a little bit of low end, but gain it back on high end

BlackTraxH23

It definitely works. Low end lost but mid to top end is great. Good mod with cam upgrade and headwork.

http://blacktrax.net/btp_H22_IM.html

mgags7

blacktrax, your boring service looks good, can i send you the tb i am having bored out and you match the mani to that? cant wait to see the dyno, ill probably get the bore when i see that....thanks

BlackTraxH23

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mgags7 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">blacktrax, your boring service looks good, can i send you the tb i am having bored out and you match the mani to that? cant wait to see the dyno, ill probably get the bore when i see that....thanks</TD></TR></TABLE>

No problem, bring the t/b or the t/b gasket and we can do it for you. Just give us a call 408.946.2900

vinuneuro

Why cant u just take them out without covering them up?

satan_srv

what? this makes no sense. blocking 4 of 8 runners won't make more power!? you're reducing the volume of air the manifold can flow

somboa

What about removing the butterflies AND gutting the ports so that it's one big massive hole instead of 8 separate holes?

A train of thought is that this is negligable since air will always flow through the path of least resistance (the inner/shorter ports).

satan_srv

loss of velocity and torque...it's been done and it doesn't make more power...maybe I little on top but less through the powerband

Us talking about it : https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=634796

junbb1 reporting his losses on the dyno https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=648786

somboa

Shiet... dyno proven to lose power. I'm running mine like that too (removed butterfly plates).

Maybe it's time I put them back on... or I could go with the Skunk2.

WillsH22Accord

ok now i have the skunk2, and its wide open inside, tell me how thats any different from removing the iab plates? other than larger ports and runners, theres pretty much no difference, so if youre losing power with the plates out, then you'll just loose more power with the skunk, considering you'll have double the air coming in, is this not correct???

@ries

just leave the butterflies alone... unless you like to waste your time and lose hp.

Hawkze_2.3

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WillsH22Accord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok now i have the skunk2, and its wide open inside, tell me how thats any different from removing the iab plates?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't think the runners of the S2 manifold are as big as the stock mani completely bored out, so the difference is there, just not as much of it.

satan_srv

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WillsH22Accord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok now i have the skunk2, and its wide open inside, tell me how thats any different from removing the iab plates? other than larger ports and runners, theres pretty much no difference, so if youre losing power with the plates out, then you'll just loose more power with the skunk, considering you'll have double the air coming in, is this not correct???</TD></TR></TABLE>

runner length and diameter...

codeh22a4

well what i did was to remove only the butterflys but the butterfly plate is still there i just pulled the 8 butterflys out

WillsH22Accord

my post was referring to somboa, he said he has the butterflies removed and it sucks, so he might get the skunk, but wouldnt that be pointless? because having the iabs removed would be very similar to having an aftermarket IM correct?

mgags7

no, the iabs removed on the stock mani flow way too much down low and pretty much the same up top, like no real diff...the skunk2 is obviously comparable in flow up top since it doesnt rly change the hp too much, but i would think the stocker would do better than the s2 down low b/c of the iabs....

ludegetsmwet

the skunk 2 intake manifold kicks ***. massive air flow. way better than any possible modification you could do to the stock intake manifold and removing intake air bypass butterflies.

satan_srv

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WillsH22Accord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my post was referring to somboa, he said he has the butterflies removed and it sucks, so he might get the skunk, but wouldnt that be pointless? because having the iabs removed would be very similar to having an aftermarket IM correct?</TD></TR></TABLE>

no

8 ports with 2 different lengths, more surface area and overall volume, and obstructions to flow between all 8 ports

vs.

4 optimally sized ports for volume, 1 length, no obstructions.