gstrudler

Finally got the crank in the block and the pistons on the rods. Went to put the pistons and rods in and as I had wondered, to my dismay the rods won't clear the bottom of the cylinder walls at the top of the stroke

I guess my next project is to see how much I need to clearance the walls and make sure I can pull that much material out without having any issues. Also need to find out if this is something I can hack, or if it needs to go to the shop. In the meantime, I might try to install the assembly at the bottom of the stroke so I can at least get a cc on the pistons.

tqhunter

You're running a stock block, arent you?

I tested the rod clearance in my sleeved block and it was ok.

ESP.net

I havent heard that with the H22 Eagles... have though on possible B and D...

gstrudler

Are you still at 87mm or oversized (87.25, 87.5, etc)? I'm assuming you're talking about an h-block with the f23 crank (since you're getting the rod bolts). Which block?

tqhunter

I'm at 87mm. It's an SH block w/ AEBS sleeves. Using the F23 crank

gstrudler

Hmm, I'll have to measure the stock cylinder wall height and post up, do mind doing the same for the sleeves? Obviously I assume the stock walls are longer than the sleeves, but that should give me an idea of how much I can take off the walls at a minimum.

tqhunter

Yea, I can measure them on Monday. The sleeves have their own water jackets. The water jackets for the stock cylinders are probably longer. You would want to make sure you don't cut into them. Even if you could cut enough cylinder wall material out, you may not be able to cut as deeply as the sleeves are short. Does that make sense?

gstrudler

Well, not much progress but thought I'd post up...

I know I've been driving on borrowed time; my car made it 2.5 years and a little over 20k miles on a blown headgasket before it finally decided to retire itself last week. After doing some basic troubleshooting I discovered I had almost no compression in cyl #3, so off came the head. Of course it couldn't just make it another 8 weeks when I'll have everything ready to go. Pull the head and turns out I burned an exhaust valve in the #3 cylinder; there was a small piece of it missing which was obviously allowing all the air to blow right through. I'll post a pic later.

Fortunately I had another head sitting around waiting for the build, so I picked up a new headgasket and threw that head on. Finally got it fired today but it doesn't want to idle on it's own. If I give it a little throttle I can get it to hold fairly nicely around 2k, but when I left off it will sometimes catch itself and hunt for the idle a little bit and then die, or just die. I'm not sure if some of it is fuel related as I'm almost out of gas and it may be trying to run on fumes, dunno (light is not on yet though). My only concern is I didn't ever get the head checked out; I was going to get some work done to it for the build when I got the $, but needing to get the car up and knowing I'll be pulling it in a few weeks, decided to just throw it on. It had supposedly been worked over by a machine shop before I got it, it had certainly been media blasted and the ports had been cleaned up, plus a little around the valves. It has also been sitting around for several months though. My plan in the morning is to re-check valve lash now that it's been through a heat cycle, and then play with the idle screw on the tb some more.

On a side note, while I was waiting for my coolant to drain, I managed to get an f20c and f22c piston mounted on the f23 rods and put into the block at bdc. I gave the crank a little spin to see how far it would go and try and figure out how much I would need to take off. To my surprise, it spun right through to tdc without hitting anything. I then discovered that the piston rings put a fair bit of resistance on the rotating assembly when moving away from tdc, which I had mistaken for interference between the rod and sleeve since I had just been spinning the crank by hand and all of a sudden couldn't. So that was the one nice thing to find, I just need to verify how much clearance is present, but I'm sure it will be enough.

tqhunter

Just remember the valves have bigger lift in VTEC. Which pistons do you think you'll be using? The F20c has a taller dome right?

gstrudler

Well, been awhile since an update since not too much has been happening on the actual build. Lots of pieces around, just not enough time to do anything with them. Still have the two pistons mounted in the other block, just haven't had time to cc them out yet.

I started leaking oil and losing coolant like crazy not long after I swapped the heads out. I did a little hunting and realized it was coming from under the head, which made me realize that the headgasket wasn't sealing. I followed the torque specs in the Helm's when I installed it, but I knew I needed to pull the head again and when I did I was surprised how low the torque was on the head studs. So, off came the head again, but this time I wanted to change where my electric water pump was mounted.

I can definitely say now after so much effort and problems that an electric water pump is not a mod to do on a street car; it is simply not worth the few extra horse power. Me being me, however, I have so much into this EWP I want to make it work, so I decided to hack up the stock coolant bypass pipe (the one right behind the block) and insert some lines going to/from the water pump. It took me a little while to figure out where to mount it and how to get all the lines there, but I eventually came up with this:



And to make it a little easier to follow the routing on it all (the blue blob on the left is the water pump; arrows show coolant flow direction):



To get it right I had to use a couple heater hoses from what cars I don't know (guy at a local parts shop let me just look through all the hoses and pick what I needed), some brass plumbing elbows to make the bends near the block and some bulk heater hose to hook all the pipes together. It was a total PITA, but I'm hoping it will be the right solution; it was as close as I could get to putting the pump in the coolant stream the most similar to how the stock pump operates. If this works out, I might try to get Samco to make me something more permanent or use a combination of their parts to build something similar for when I swap the new build in. Otherwise if this is stupid and a bust I will just go back to the stock water pump and call it a learning experience.

I also tried putting in a remote oil filter to make oil changes easier (especially since my catch can sits right over the oil filter so I have to pull it out to get to it), but I couldn't find a good place for it, so I scrapped that idea.

I decided to install the Blacktrax spacers I've had sitting around for my IM and port-matching those, plus clean the EGR ports again since I didn't do it very thoroughly last time.

The big project is I'm re-doing my ENTIRE exhaust system, from the header all the way back. I either 1.) don't know how to weld and can't figure it out or 2.) have a bad welder (that I bought used over a year ago on Craigslist and haven't used yet). I'm going to try another welder on Friday or Saturday and see if it's just me or if it's the welder (kind of hoping the welder - Lincoln 100HD). I bought the header primaries a while back; they're stock length but with a long merge in-between the pairs. From there I'm building everything else; the secondaries are stepped from 1.875" at the flange to 2" just after the 90˚, then a merge collector from 2" to 2.5", flexpipe, transition to 3", 3" Magnaflow spun cat, 3" the rest of the way back (with mandrel bends) through a Borla muffler to a 3.5" polished tip. Should be pretty sweet when it's all done, but I know it's going to be a bit of work, and I'm hoping it all fits up right. All the piping is stainless up to the cat to help keep the heat, then mild after that to save on cost.

Once I get the car running again I still need to get eManage installed and start tuning with it, especially now that I'll have the new exhaust on there (with a port for my wideband AFR too).

If I can get all this taken care of and get my car decently running for a while, I will have time to keep working on the build. I want to cc the pistons next, then look at p2v in case I need to have the valve pockets cut while I'm having the pistons lightened.

gstrudler

Few more updates: my welder was the problem after all. Borrowed another one and it worked fine, so I have a new exhaust on now. Making a few modifications this weekend; it it pretty loud, so I've got an 18" Vibrant resonator going in as well as changing some of the flanges to v-bands so the angles are a little better in the back.

Finally got around to cc'ing the pistons as well as my spare head. Of course at about the same time I found all the info I needed online, but it confirmed what I tested. I found the head at 54cc's, and Zeal calc has it at 53.8cc, so that was good. The f20c piston under my tests was around +2cc and the f22c seemed to be right about at 0. This seems to be about on par with the Mahle pistons, whose +6cc piston is 11.7:1 compression in the f20c, whereas stock is 11:1.

After some more reading, I'm coming to grips with the fact that I will probably need to get oversized pistons as the FRM blocks tend to go out of round pretty quickly. So, I will likely end up dropping for some Mahle 87.25mm +6cc pistons. The nice thing is they are around 305g per piston, coupled with the 86g wrist pins I have, lands me at about 390g. That's about 10% under stock f23 weight, which makes me feel pretty good. With stock block and head that should get me to 12.2:1 compression according to Zeal. I have to deck my block some due to some scratching on the top, which could start pushing me more towards 12.4-12.5 with the stock headgasket depending on how much I have to get taken off. I might end up going with a thicker SCE headgasket to keep me in a better range (12:1-12.2:1) for 92 octane.

Any comments on pistons? If I can get away with used pistons that will save me a bunch of money, but I'd rather do it right.

Due to funds I'll be sticking with the stock head. Sometime down the road my plans are to throw in Pro1's, but at the moment I just want to make sure the block is done right, as I can easily swap the head later.

Next step is I will be shaving the forging marks off the rods then sending the rods and crank out to be cryo'd. I need to order pistons in the meantime and a few other parts from Honda. After that the block and internals goes to the machine shop to have the crank balanced, block bored and decked, mains aligned-honed (ARP main studs), and bearings and piston rings fitted. Once it comes back I've got the KS balance shaft delete kit and h23 tensioner conversion to install and an ATI damper to throw on. I may put in a crank scraper too, I'm not totally sure yet.

I had a set of S2000 injectors I purchased a while back that I just sent to RC to have cleaned, and they came back with the sheet and said they were only flowing 250cc's @ 43psi... ?? I'm going to shoot them an email to see if they have any ideas why that would be, since those should be more around 360cc's or so.

Once the motor is pulled, I will be rebuilding the tranny with Syncrotech syncro's, replacing the forks and any necessary syncro sleeves, hubs and/or gears. Have an ACT Streetlight flywheel and Exedy stage 1 clutch going in as well.

Everything's getting closer. Just put in an order for some Samco hoses to redo the water pump setup to make it more secure along with some other hoses since they have 170k+ miles and 14 years on them. They take 4 weeks or so to get here, so that might be what holds things up if any, although I suspect it will take that long to get everything pieced together.

gstrudler

Wow, can't believe it's been a year and a half since I updated this thread.

Long story very short, some circumstances out of my control are taking this build a different direction. I ended up buying the Mahle 87.25mm S2k pistons because I knew that's where I needed to go to make this thing solid. However, due to said circumstances I no longer need the pistons or my stock rods, so they are for sale if anyone is interested in them. Check the for sale thread or PM me for details, but the rods have been totally reworked and have ARP rod bolts and come with the Mahle pistons brand new in the box, plus custom light-weight wrist pins.

Where I'm at right now is I got the eManage installed, got new s2k injectors and got them installed, have the exhaust useable (still needs work though; adding another silencer and a different muffler after the motor is done), got the head cleaned up with a VJ from Portflow, and the block is out getting all its work done. As has been this whole process, it's all dependent on getting money in terms of when this thing will be done. Still have to pay for some of the block work and then I still have a bunch of rebuild parts to buy including new bearings for the trans, seals, oil pump, etc. Looking forward to getting it done and hoping it won't be another year and a half.

gstrudler

Well I finally got the motor done over the past two weeks and fired it up for the first time today. Here's where it stands now:

Block:
-GE sleeved and built bottom end
-97mm Honda F23 crank
-Crower F23 Maxi-light rods
-custom 89mm Arias 12:1 pistons
-KS B/S delete
-KS manual tensioner
-crank scraper
-ARP main & head studs

Head:
-Laskey prepped (Portflow VJ)
-stock cams
-stock VT & valves
-S2 tuner cam gears
-stock TB
-S2K 370cc injectors

misc:
-ATI damper
-eManage Ultimate
-ACT Streetlite flywheel
-Exedy Stage 1 clutch
-Syncrotech carbon synchro's
-Injen SRI
-stock IM w/ Blacktrax spacer & OEM butterflies
-thermal IM gasket
-custom (questionable one-off/bad) header
-3" exhaust (mandrel-bent; high flow cat; 3 resonators and Vibrant muffler)
-Torco fluids

To do (have parts):
-COP conversion w/ AEM TwinFire (resolving wiring issue w/ eManage)
-install 70mm Omni TB (IM already ported)

To do (need parts):
-tighten crank bolt (thinking of getting a custom holder made for the ATI pulley)
-degree cams/check P2V & V2V
-breather setup on VC

I was quite delighted that after spending two weeks ripping out the old motor, cleaning everything thoroughly, swapping parts over to the new motor, rebuilding the trans, and then re-installing, everything started up just fine on the first go. Just did the initial oil change and hopefully everything will keep running smoothly.

After the break-in period (as recommended by GE) I plan to get it to the track in a couple weeks for my first time ever and see what it does and dial in the tune; I'm hoping to hit IFO in my area on 9/1 mostly for fun. At some point I'll get it to the dyno too just to see what it puts down.

For those who managed to read through more of the thread, I ditched the electric water pump setup. I finally got it working suitably for street driving (heat worked all the time, temps were stable, no interaction from me/all automatic), but the pump was quite noisy and I knew with a bigger motor I could sacrifice the few hp I had picked up from it.

snobordboy

Glad to hear that she is done and running again!

With all of the motor and head work, any reason you have not upgraded cams? I bet a set of Pro1 or Pro2 cams would really open her up and take advantage of your compression and breathing abilities!

gstrudler

Strictly a $$ thing. I plan to go Pro1's with matching VT sometime in the near-ish future (hopefully before next spring); I need to do brakes and shocks before that though unfortunately. I knew I could swap cams in later pretty easily, so they had to wait since they weren't critical to getting the motor done. Someday I'd like a new header and exhaust setup that will work better for this motor, too. In a dream world where I randomly fall into money I'm thinking about driving it down to Hytech and having John do it all.

gstrudler

Finally got it to the track a couple weeks ago. First time ever running the quarter mile for myself, so that was fun and a learning experience; obviously seat time will help my times get better. I was hoping to be the in 14's, but 15.2 was my best run. I didn't pull out anything, so full street trim including spare tire and a sub and two amps in the back, so with myself and being in an SH, weight is around 3250lbs. Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Pluses at 30psi, was launching at ~2500-3000rpm to keep from spinning the tires 13:1 AFR's, still pulling a little vacuum at WOT.

kingofbattle909

iTrader: (6)

nice

gstrudler

Wow, can't believe it's been almost 5 YEARS since I posted in this thread (and even longer since I started this whole project). Finally got the car on a dyno to get a final tune before I sell it off; made 207whp and 177ft/lbs; would be interesting to see what it does at the track now that I've made a few more changes, but not sure I'll take it before I sell it. I bit the bullet and had Hytech do the exhaust a few years ago (drove down and had them install it on the car). Very recently finally got the COP conversion done (that was a PITA and I guess technically it's a coil-near-plug install) with an M&W Pro14 CDI driving four M&W CDI coils. Put on Tein Street Flex coilovers a couple years ago. I think this is the final list for motor stuff as it sits right now:

Block:
Built by Golden Eagle Mfg
Golden Eagle iron sleeves, bored to 89mm
Honda F23 (97mm stroke) crankshaft
Crower F23 Maxi-Light rods
Arias custom 12:1 compression pistons
ARP main studs (with line bore performed)
KS Tuned balance shaft delete
KS Tuned manual timing belt tensioner
ATI crankshaft damper
Ishihara-Johnson crankshaft scraper

Head:
Portflow valve job
ARP head studs
Skunk2 Pro camshaft gears
Vented valve cover
Honda spring-style LMA’s
Stock valve train & cams (US-spec)

Drivetrain:
Synchrotech Pro-series carbon syncros (with sleeves)
ACT Streetlite flywheel
Exedy Stage 1 clutch

Intake/Exhaust:
Injen short ram intake w/ custom cold air extension
Maxbore 66mm throttle body
Blacktrax IAB spacer
Hytech (genuine) custom header
Hytech full exhaust with twin-loop muffler

PGM-FI:
GReddy eManage Ultimate
370cc Honda S2000 fuel injectors
DeatschWerks DW200 fuel pump
AEM fuel rail and adjustable regulator
PLX wideband o2 sensor with electronic gauge
M&W Pro14 CDI ignition box
M&W CDI coils x4
Custom Magnecor spark plug wires

Misc:
C&R Racing radiator
Samco Sport coolant hoses
Optima Yellow-Top battery
PLX oil temperature sensor
Innovative front motor mount