topp_dawg_g

iTrader: (1)

the build has:

h22a1 benson sleeve block
89mm wiseco pistons (12.36:1 CR after calculation)
ib spec rods
h23 knife-edge crankshaft
stage 3 port w/ 5 angle bowl port h22 head
skunk2 valves (stock size), valve springs, retainers
skunk2 pro 2's camshaft
skunk2 pro series cam gears
euro r manifold port matched
bdl 70mm TB
no management yet

the problems:

bogs when letting off throttle
bogs when stepping harder on throttle
black smoke
won't idle when cold
idles at 1100-1500 when warm (varies at different temp but it's not bouncing)
bdl idle screw not effective (using the lever screw only to hold throttle)
need to clean spark plug at times due to carbon build up to start

i'm running too rich and there's threads out there about this but since i'm having too much problems, i want something specific for me. this is how i connected my manifold:



let me know if this is right or if there's a better way to do this and how to fix the problems. thanks.

DrivinVtec

"no management yet"

H22Luda720

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DrivinVtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
"no management yet"
</TD></TR></TABLE>

X2

topp_dawg_g

iTrader: (1)

so i should save money to get the management and street tune it before breaking it in. after it beaks in, hit the dyno for a better tune. how's that sound? will look into the base map because not so familiar w/ it. any info will be appreciated though.

DrivinVtec

yes. use crome. I wouldnt even run it with out one yet. your risking it big time.

98vtec

you are running aggressive cams, aggressive compression, likely bigger injectors....what do you expect without engine management?

I would use Neptune, Hondata, or eCtune

95greenlude

wow.....go ahead and grenade your motor!

you need to tune it badly, if your seriously running it on a stock p13, i wouldnt be suprised if you melt a piston, or wash out the walls

topp_dawg_g

iTrader: (1)

what do you guys think is the easiest way to tune it and make it drivable until i get the s300 or should i just wait til i get the s300?

VTecLude1994

iTrader: (1)

Just wait.

byang27

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by topp_dawg_g &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">no management yet
</TD></TR></TABLE>

get it tune.

95greenlude

^why the hell did you just bump this to say something that was said before you??

Scheizty

Heh, first you get the ems. Then you TOW it to the tuner. Do NOT try to run it to the garage without a proper tune.

topp_dawg_g

iTrader: (1)

with the 70mm bdl TB, i hooked the MAP sensor on the bottom of it. is that how i'm suppose to do it? i'm running CEL codes 3, 7, 12, and 43 right now, which is the MAP sensor, TPS, EGR, and fuel supply system. i'm also running the egr block off and i'm not sure where the tps should be, just turned it to the middle. anyone know where i should do from here?

98vtec

get a professional to help you.

topp_dawg_g

iTrader: (1)

just put a new O2 but still getting code 43. but code 3 and 7 is gone now. is there a possibility that they will come back on?

H22Luda720

You really need to stop trying to run this thing with no tune

topp_dawg_g

iTrader: (1)

just trying to do the things that i can do for now. it's now or later.

95greenlude

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by topp_dawg_g &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">just trying to do the things that i can do for now. it's now or later.</TD></TR></TABLE>
your contradicting yourself though......running your car without a tune NOW is <U>GOING</U> to cause more problems later....


catch our drift?

Rosko

iTrader: (1)

yeah.. thats a pretty serious setup to be ran without a tune. get a wideband and an ecu that can be tuned in real time... i.e. hondata, neptune...

TPS sensor.. make sure that the little arm of the tps is in the grooves of the throttle shaft and not on either side of it, then find the thread on here that explains how to calibrate it correctly. That could be causing some accel/decel issues you are having amongst other things.

MAP sensor... those cams are huge and will not pull as much vaccum as the stock ones and thats probably what is causing the rich condition. The MAP/ecu will think that the car is under more load than it actually is. The only way to counteract this is to retune it, which you will ABSOLUTELY have to do anyways.

Idle screws from what I've seen on tb's are useless. 70mm is also damn huge on a Euro-r and I would imagine that you are having some problems sealing it up. That could be causing the high idle, just make sure that you have no vaccuum leaks.

PirateMcFred

Get a simple socketed OBD1 ECU with a basemap sized for your displacement injectors and cams ASAP. Basemaps are for break-in. Do NOT WOT the engine unless timing and A/F ratios are correct.

You're asking for a ruined engine. Don't run it until you have proper management.

Pirate

topp_dawg_g

iTrader: (1)

if i get a hondata s300, is it necessary for me to get a wideband also?

1fastlude1

you def. need an ems no you dont have to have a wideband they will just charge you 50 or so to hook one up to tune but I HIGHLY RECOMMEND A WIDEBAND

98vtec

i would recommend a wideband, but if you dont know what the numbers mean then its pretty pointless to have a display gauge.

stop driving the car until it is tuned. It's pretty simple. the engine WILL NOT run without a tune. You have changed EVERYTHING about the engines stock geometry.

seek professional help or blow the engine.

topp_dawg_g

iTrader: (1)

now going back to my engine management, i'm not sure what to get but i did save up a little.
like before, i was planning to get the p72 with the s300 just for the knock sensor capability.
then, i was thinking: do i really need the knock sensor capabilities and just get a p28?
after that, i was thinking: if going with a p28, i as well just go with cromepro.
what do you guys think is the best way for this setup? pros/cons? thanks.

98vtec

you dont need the knock sensor.

hondata, Neptune, eCtune, AEM

for this setup, i would run something that has a little more "complete" control than Crome. Regardless of what people say about it, there are flaws in the ignition lookup tables and with stressed out motors like this that is the last thing you dont want complete control over.