Legendaryyaj

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr.Hankey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">oh man. I cant wait to start working on this. Being able to rev to over 8g's alone is awesome, plus in the future (very near furture) im going to drop a turbo in my baby. Match made in heaven.

Also you say if i go bottum end parts i can get h22s' redline. Can you tell me exactly what parts i would have to get. Im going to have someone build this at a shop, and hopefully i can learn alot while they are doing it for me.

One more thing. People have been telling me that f/i on a h22 = none reliable daily driver. Will this be the same situation with this hybrid f23a1/h22? Or will it be reliable?</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you gonna have a shop build it, only thing ur gonna learn is what to buy, what not to buy, and what wont work. You wont know why. I doubt u will be knowing how to build one yourself when it comes to. Also with the redline so high i still doubt that it will be that reliable. You will still need to upgrade the oil squirters or add some on if you dont already have some. Even the prelude oil squirters are prone to failure from what ive read on here so be ready to spend some money. It will run but im sure it wil have its bugs to work out and it wont run as good as a regularly built engine from the factory.

But even with all this i am willing to take a dive.

prelittlelude

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr.Hankey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">oh man. I cant wait to start working on this. Being able to rev to over 8g's alone is awesome, plus in the future (very near furture) im going to drop a turbo in my baby. Match made in heaven.

Also you say if i go bottum end parts i can get h22s' redline. Can you tell me exactly what parts i would have to get. Im going to have someone build this at a shop, and hopefully i can learn alot while they are doing it for me.

One more thing. People have been telling me that f/i on a h22 = none reliable daily driver. Will this be the same situation with this hybrid f23a1/h22? Or will it be reliable?</TD></TR></TABLE>

if your going to do the bottom end, you can get the h22 crank and rods, and have some custom fordged pistons made for what ever CR ratio you want.

and alot of the custom stuff that has to be done a shop will probably charge you an arm and a leg for it, and your not going to learn anything by having them do it. i mean if you have the money then thats cool, but your going to have to call a piston company and give them the info of the type of piston you want, forged obviously,

and the reason people say that h22 is unreliable for daily driving boosted, is because the stock pistons are weak and crack under high presure, you will not have to worry about his seeing as how you would be runing forged pistons on iron sleves.

the_eyecon

Why would you want to spend money on something like this? I would get an H22, sleeve it and get forged internals and boost if, either way none of these set ups is "reliable". Boos ALWAYS has a chance to hurt your motor bigtime, especially if your engine did not come with turbo. I say go H22a w/turbo though, or JRSC for a safer set up, your call though.

edit: I'm talking to the guys who WANT to try this..I don't see why you'd really want to...someone explain it to me in depth, the advantages this provides (prelittlelude )

Thanks.

Mr.Hankey

I love this board, you guys are so insightful. And you dont get mad at me when i ask questions like honda-acura.net does . I guess im going to have to do this work myself, because the main reason i was going to take it to the shop was so i could gain some knowledge on my internals while the worked on my car. But it would seem that the only way im going to learn is through trial and error.

prelittlelude

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by the_eyecon &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why would you want to spend money on something like this? I would get an H22, sleeve it and get forged internals and boost if, either way none of these set ups is "reliable". Boos ALWAYS has a chance to hurt your motor bigtime, especially if your engine did not come with turbo. I say go H22a w/turbo though, or JRSC for a safer set up, your call though.

edit: I'm talking to the guys who WANT to try this..I don't see why you'd really want to...someone explain it to me in depth, the advantages this provides (prelittlelude )

Thanks.</TD></TR></TABLE>

ha! where to start, ok lets go this way, how ridiculously expensive are h22 long blocks? maybe cheapest right now 1500, ok so i got my f22 from the junk yard for 100 bucks, with 60k miles on it, i spent 50 bucks on decking the block so i didn't have to ouch my h22 head, and i got to the 9:1 compression ratio i wanted.. now i have a **** cheap block that has iron sleves stock , that i can boost the hell out off and car less if it throws a rod or cracks a piston.

now lets say i wasn't as lazy as i am, i could have boucht aftermarket rods and forged pistons, and still boost WAY beyond what the h22 pistons can handle stock, i mean if you want to buy a long block then sleve it to run forged pistons that will work

i don't even know prices any more, but lets say h22 long block 1500, ge sleved 750, aftermarket pistons 300 so your looking at 2550

f22, 100 bucks from junk yard, 300 for pistons, im at a grand total of $400, do you see the advantage now?

and you made one damn good point, "Boost ALWAYS has a chance to hurt your motor bigtime" that is EXACTLY why i am boosting on a f22 block, because if anything happens to it WHO GIVES A ****.. if i was boosting on my h22 block and it threw a rod through the side of the block i would break down in tears..

i under took this project for 2 reasons: people said it couldn't be done, and i would be damned to **** up my h22 block, so im using a f22 which are a dime a dozen, when at the junk yard i had over 20 different f22s to choose from, how many h22s NONE 0.

next question.

yohan

It sucks you always get challenged.. especially when the first thread says IT RUNS .. and you've driven it too .. the combination is obvioulsy proven .. without a dyno plot or tuning your still gettin a nice ride out of her ... can only imagine when boost comes up.. im seriously on the edge of my seat waiting probably as anxious of you to see this come together ... you better drive the **** out of it so we can see how strong this baby is ... :D

(but uhh .. we're not responsible for your tickets or injuries if you get carried away bagging on it from our coaxing you

drumking15

[QUOTE=yohan]you better drive the **** out of it so we can see how strong this baby is ... :D
QUOTE]
hehe tell me about it....ill have to get tom to stop at his gf's house again and stay there until 2 when i have to go pick him up...and accidentally smoke yet another rsx-s.....mmm prelude.....mmmmm torque something unknown to my lil b18c

tom hows the oil pressure in that running now...still really high w/ those hamp filters i got you?

and also you gonna be around in a few weekends after school is out....gotta pull the motor out of jennie's civic and could use a hand

Mr.Hankey

Wait, are you guys telling me that i only have to spend like...400bux to have the parts to install all this into my engine? If thats the case, im going to go out a get forged pistions and have one of my gear head friends do it! And btw , can you guys explain a couple things to me. First off, what is the signifigance to CR? Second what the hell are sleves? And third, do i have to pluck my whole engine out to start these mods, or are they more of a bolt-on procedure?


Edit: oh, and how much boost do you think my engine will be able to handle after these few mods? 9psi? This is going to be a daily driver, so what do you think i should be sitting at?

Oh, and do you know if i can up my psi on a stock engine, without mods to increase HP?

99spanishGT

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr.Hankey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wait, are you guys telling me that i only have to spend like...400bux to have the parts to install all this into my engine? If thats the case, im going to go out a get forged pistions and have one of my gear head friends do it! And btw , can you guys explain a couple things to me. First off, what is the signifigance to CR? Second what the hell are sleves? And third, do i have to pluck my whole engine out to start these mods, or are they more of a bolt-on procedure?


Edit: oh, and how much boost do you think my engine will be able to handle after these few mods? 9psi? This is going to be a daily driver, so what do you think i should be sitting at?

Oh, and do you know if i can up my psi on a stock engine, without mods to increase HP?</TD></TR></TABLE> slow down!!!

Mr.Hankey

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Quote, originally posted by Mr.Hankey »
Wait, are you guys telling me that i only have to spend like...400bux to have the parts to install all this into my engine? If thats the case, im going to go out a get forged pistions and have one of my gear head friends do it! And btw , can you guys explain a couple things to me. First off, what is the signifigance to CR? Second what the hell are sleves? And third, do i have to pluck my whole engine out to start these mods, or are they more of a bolt-on procedure?

Edit: oh, and how much boost do you think my engine will be able to handle after these few mods? 9psi? This is going to be a daily driver, so what do you think i should be sitting at?

Oh, and do you know if i can up my psi on a stock engine, without mods to increase HP?

slow down!!! </TD></TR></TABLE>
Wha-why? no!

RicanLude

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr.Hankey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Wha-why? no! </TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm pretty sure he means slow down because #1 the project had never been done before until now a& you're saying it as if it's nothing to replicate. #2 You want to do this and you don't even know what sleeves are and #3 there is A LOT more to it then just what you probably read in this post. before you even try this I suggest you do LOTS of research.

ph8ed4life

ditto to what ricanlude said

prelittlelude

yes theoreticaly but it all depends on what you want to do with it, i think price will vary with how much a head costs you.
compresion ratio or CR , is how much the air/fuel mixture is compressed down during the compression stroke of the motor. so a 10:1 cr means the mixute is compressed down into a space that is 10 times smaller than what is used to be.
CR is important when chosing whether your going n/a or boosted, for n/a you typicaly want a higher compression ratio and the opposite for boosted, lower cr is better and safer in the long run. yes you can run out and get forged pistons, i guess the best way to describe to who ever you order them from is that you want a piston with X for a compresion ratio, and the head your using is a h22 so the valve releifs need to be the same size as the h22, and the bore and stroke are 86mm for f23, and stroke is 97 for the f23 crank, or 90.7 for the 98+ h22 crank.... or on second thought it might be a good idea to telll them exactly what your attempting so they don't **** the order all up
sleves are where the piston moves up and down inside of, the sleve material of the f series is iron which means you can run forged pistons with no problems, and no you don't have to take the motor out of the car, but some things will be easyier with it out, but it is completely doable with it in the car, especialy if you don't change the crank.
[/quote]
to tell the truth i have no idea what is going to be safe as i have not even tried this yet, depending on your compression ratio, and what you decide to use for fuel managment, that is what will be the most heavily weighted factor in determing how much boost to run.
to a certian point, and then it will just expload. i mean im sorry if some of my answers suck, but i don't have them all, i mean im still driving my f22/vtec around on a stock p13 double hammer on me, i haven't had trime to tune or anything. i really want to get to a dyno just to get a baseline. but time and money suck.

alot of this is going to be determined by people just time trying. doing what i have done and continuing to update this board as to the status and setup and how sucessful things are going.


i think my best advice to you is just that "slow down" decide what you want, and gather all the information that you need before doing asnything. look deply into h22 swaps into accords, because you are mostly interested in the wiring part. but decide what you want, how much you have to spend, and if this car brakes how badly is it going to hurt you? for me i have a winter beater to fall back on, no its not cheap having to cars, and alot of people don't even have one. i just happen to be lucky i guess. think thats what i suggest.

rageillusions

I recently swaped a 94' JMD H22 in my 93' prelude. I did a tune up on it this weekend and when I fired it up it wouldn't idle correctly and the engine began to lightly shake. I also niticed that it took longer for the engine to warm up. It hasetated to rev up when I gave it gas. Before I did the tune up it wouldn't iddle right away but as soon as the engine warmed up it iddled good. I also noticed that the engine hesitated to pick up power when I floored it. If you have any answers for me please let me know I need to get my car in the road A.S.A.P., and I'm really worried about the rocking on the engine.

Thanks,
Juan

Mr.Hankey

prelittlelude you are my hero.

drumking15

here's a bright idea...start your own post!!! hijackers

and yes tom is god...but ill still own him

drumking15

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rageillusions &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I recently swaped a 94' JMD H22 in my 93' prelude. I did a tune up on it this weekend and when I fired it up it wouldn't idle correctly and the engine began to lightly shake. I also niticed that it took longer for the engine to warm up. It hasetated to rev up when I gave it gas. Before I did the tune up it wouldn't iddle right away but as soon as the engine warmed up it iddled good. I also noticed that the engine hesitated to pick up power when I floored it. If you have any answers for me please let me know I need to get my car in the road A.S.A.P., and I'm really worried about the rocking on the engine.

Thanks,
Juan</TD></TR></TABLE>

here's a bright idea...start your own post!!! hijackers

and yes tom is god...but i still own him

Mr.Hankey

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> i think my best advice to you is just that "slow down" decide what you want, and gather all the information that you need before doing asnything. look deply into h22 swaps into accords, because you are mostly interested in the wiring part. but decide what you want, how much you have to spend, and if this car brakes how badly is it going to hurt you? for me i have a winter beater to fall back on, no its not cheap having to cars, and alot of people don't even have one. i just happen to be lucky i guess. think thats what i suggest. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah i know what you mean. Its just that, i knew what i wanted from the start, but then it got shot down (people told me that h22's couldnt be turboed, and be reliable) and so i wanted to just turbo my f23a1 stock engine. But now youre telling me that i can actually have a reliable turboed h22 daily driver, and all i need to get there is forged pistions? And then there was this new info that you posted here, and i think its the cheapest hp i can get, and it wouldnt take as long as dropping a new h22 in there, plus f23a1's are reliable when it comes to F/I. So yeah, im still not sure what im going to be doing in the near future, but from the info that i got here im going to have turbos in my car either way i go.

prelittlelude

toms 1000th post:


yeah well yesterday was fun. i still REALLY need to plug in the knock sensor, the car is really fun to drive up until it throw the knock code, then it starts pulling crazy timing out, and the car only becomes fun to drive when in VTEC, not to much of a problem if you know what i mean, well the car decided to get hot in traffic yesterday and one of the hoses that i didn't put a clamp on, yes i isaid i didn't put the clamp on.. well it poped off and drained all the collant with it, well the motor withstood the overheating, and still runing, but rob is looking into dyno possabilities and do to lack of tuning skills on my part and dyno time is $ i was thinking of using my 3 pulls as follows:

1st with stock p13
2nd with aem ems base map for cold air intake and exhaust
3rd either advance ignition using the EMS or with the distributer depending on which one yeilds the best power out of run 1 and 2, let me know what you guys think?

Sam1am26

1998 f23a1... This block has the 55mm mains correct?
Can you safely bore out an F-Series to the bore of an H series?

fastludeh22

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by prelittlelude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">toms 1000th post:


yeah well yesterday was fun. i still REALLY need to plug in the knock sensor, the car is really fun to drive up until it throw the knock code, then it starts pulling crazy timing out, and the car only becomes fun to drive when in VTEC, not to much of a problem if you know what i mean, well the car decided to get hot in traffic yesterday and one of the hoses that i didn't put a clamp on, yes i isaid i didn't put the clamp on.. well it poped off and drained all the collant with it, well the motor withstood the overheating, and still runing, but rob is looking into dyno possabilities and do to lack of tuning skills on my part and dyno time is $ i was thinking of using my 3 pulls as follows:

1st with stock p13
2nd with aem ems base map for cold air intake and exhaust
3rd either advance ignition using the EMS or with the distributer depending on which one yeilds the best power out of run 1 and 2, let me know what you guys think?</TD></TR></TABLE>

im telling you, hook that **** up and zip tie it out of the way...

it would be nice to see a graph of the p13...but if your only getting 3 pulls i dont know that id wate it...you should really see about getting it for an hour...3 pulls is 55, while 1 hr is 80 around here...w/1 hr you should be able to have the aem pull a decent a/f graph, and see what she thinks about power.

prelittlelude

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fastludeh22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

im telling you, hook that **** up and zip tie it out of the way...

</TD></TR></TABLE>

i KNOW i have had no time.. grrrrr. ill let rob be the bitch and see what the best prices he can find for me, then ill decide, at this rate i won't be turbo for a while,

prelittlelude

i HATE knock sensors,

well i pluged it in and tied it out of the way and its still throwing a code, so either 1 its still the knock code, haven't checked, or its something new which i doubt because the cel comes on exactly same time as before as soon as i go more than half thorttle once warmed up,

i talked to a friend that works at a honda dealer, he said from waht he remebers is that when the engine is idling or expereincing no knock, that the ecu should read 0v = no knock , so it being a one wire sensor probably needs to be grounded thru the block, so it kind of makes sence because if the knock sensor is a resistor triggered by knock then right now with it just hanging there it is reading OPEN or infinitly high resistance = high knock = major timing retarding. so im going to try and ground the sensor wire

ROB, how finding me a local dyno going?

drumking15

i havent had time to call yet...i know hcs doesnt allow changes during between pulls...so youd have to call them and ask

and the other place is in worcester but doesnt have much about private dyno sessions

they have a app you can fill out

http://www.smokemup.com/utils/dynosearch.php

machinehead

I have a question and dont have time to read all 11 pages. Could you make a list of all the parts you used and all the machining that was done, and list prices as well?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sam1am26 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">1998 f23a1... This block has the 55mm mains correct?
Can you safely bore out an F-Series to the bore of an H series?</TD></TR></TABLE>

No. Thats why H series has FRM sleeves instead of iron. Its just an F block with FRM. The FRM allows for a wider bore. An 87mm piston in an F block would not be a good idea.