Engine cranks, but won't start
 

4th gen, h22a1

Car worked perfectly yesterday, today it just cranks and won't start.

The main relay clicks when i turn the car on and i can hear the fuel pump prime, pulled the plugs and checked for spark and all 4 are sparking. All fuses are good. Tried disconnecting the battery for 10 minutes in case it had something to do with the old aftermarket alarm, didnt work.

I could smell gas on the plugs. I tried a jump start rolling in 2nd gear, wouldn't go.

I read some old threads where people say the injectors might not actually be getting fuel even if you can hear the pump? How do I check this? The fuel filter is only a year old. I also jumped the CEL wire and didnt get any codes. I had the timing belt and water pump changed last year, only about 10k on them.

What else can I do next to towing it to a shop https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emhammer.gif ?

Re: Engine cranks, but won't start (danny_d19)
 

Why 2nd gear? What exactly happened when you tried to push-start it?

Re: Engine cranks, but won't start (danny_d19)
 

Timing belt broke? https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...es/emdgust.gif

2nd gear? https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...es/emdgust.gif

i have that similar problem on both my hondas, it turned out to be the distributor.

Why not 2nd gear? Thats how i've always roll-started cars. Its hard to explain what it did, it just didnt start, not even close.

Would all the plugs be sparking if it was the distributer thats the problem?

Re: (danny_d19)
 

NO you would get no spark if it was the distributor. If it is the old aftermarket alarm just disconnect it completely. They usually only cut one or two sires to install them. Just remove the wires that are spliced into and put the one or two wires that are cut back together and you can rule that part out.

Re: (slamdlude)
 

time to break out the handy dandy timing light.

Re: (slamdlude)
 

you have spark and fuel.....timing. injectors not working....no way in hell all four at once and if one or two went it would still fire up<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shadow29485 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Timing belt broke? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well for some reason I'm questioning the fuel part. The pump primes, but maybe somehow its not getting pressure (i dont have a pressure gauge unfortunately).

The timing belt couldnt be broken, and I can't see how the timing could be off, the car literally ran perfect at night, and the next morning wouldn't fire up.

Re: (danny_d19)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by danny_d19 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well for some reason I'm questioning the fuel part. The pump primes, but maybe somehow its not getting pressure (i dont have a pressure gauge unfortunately).

The timing belt couldnt be broken, and I can't see how the timing could be off, the car literally ran perfect at night, and the next morning wouldn't fire up.</TD></TR></TABLE>

the plugs smelled like fuel yes? that means you are getting fuel
you have spark in all 4 yes?
cam timing is on yes?
last thing to check is ignition timing

by checking the ignition timing, you can see if the distributor is firing them at the right time. You can have all the spark in the world, but if it doesnt fire when there is fuel in the chamber then it will never start.

1+2+3+4 = running engine

Ok thanks I will check that

Is it possible for it to be so off that it won't start just from sitting in the garage overnight?

Re: (danny_d19)
 

anything is possible with honda's electrical systems https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emsmilep.gif

a little bit of moisture inside the distributor evaporate on initial startup and throws something out of whack killing the distributor. No telling what it could be.

im going through just about the same thing with my 5th gen. its at the shop right now since i gave up, ill let u know what it was might help.

my thread:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2392990

Re: (98vtec)
 

i somehow have a feeling you really never checked for spark. 2 reasons: why did you pull the plugs to check spark, and what would jump starting do that the starter wouldn't. 98vtec could be right about the cap no question, giving erratic and non-conformed spark at given points. but it doesn't add up how you parked and it and didn't start up next morning. sounds like icm, cps, or as stated dizzy cap. if you have spark and fuel, even if moisture in cap it will try to fire. if you didn't snap the belt, then i'm confused. something's missing here.....

Re: (REDLUDE4WS)
 

I checked for spark, I put a plug in each wire one after another and grounded it against a bolt and had someone turn the car over and watched each one spark. I pulled a plug to smell for gas, and then checked for spark with the plug.

I tried jump starting it because I didn't know what else to try.

I thought the same thing about it trying to fire, like if there was a little moisture or whatever. I thought it would have at least started and then died or ran rough or something.

Is it possible that when I went to start it in the morning, the timing belt somehow jumped a couple teeth and now the timing is off, causing it to not start? How do I check the timing if the engine doesn't start?

Re: (danny_d19)
 

pull the valve cover off.......but, if you do have fuel and spark, check for fuel pressure. if you don't have a gauge you can pull off the hose at the rail and check the volume it puts out. match that up to specifications for fuel pump.

Alright, thats not something I can do personally, my mechanic can though.

My other thoughts were if it was something like the ICM or CPS, it SHOULD be throwing the CEL code for that, but it's showing no code at all.

Stupid car

When I'm reading through some of the troubleshooting in the manual, and for some steps it says to connect the "test harness" and measure the voltage between some of the terminals or a terminal and a ground, what is this test harness? Is it something in the car, or a seperate harness like a dealership or shop has?

turns out the wireing I thought was bad in my distributor, which I only though was one wire that I replaced wasnt it, It was all the the wires going to the ignition module, all were kinda "crispy" and werent making good contact. I changed the module thinking it was that.


my advice: check all those little wires especially if there is spark leaving the coil but not the plugs and wires

Re: (bb6_00)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by danny_d19 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
My other thoughts were if it was something like the ICM or CPS, it SHOULD be throwing the CEL code for that, but it's showing no code at all.
Stupid car</TD></TR></TABLE>

ICM/CPS --- just because your cel isn't on doesn't mean that these cant be bad. alot of times you can have major problems and the cel will never come on. The ecu needs time to throw a code when something happens. If the icm stops firing all at once. taadah car not running / no cel... same thing with cps.

^^^^agreed

Re: (bb6_00)
 

Just to confirm, CPS is crankshaft position sensor, correct?

Re: (danny_d19)
 

yes, but there are two of them.

CYP and CKP. Both will be located in your distributor.

Well some good news and some bad. I took out the main relay just to 100% rule that out as the problem, was getting out of the car with it in my hand and dropped it, cracked a corner of the green circuit board off.... so I thought it was pooched for good now. (that was on friday)

Put it back in this afternoon just to see if it would work, and the car fired up right away..?? So I drove it up and down the block a few times and ran like a dream. Parked it, left it idling, and leaned under the dash to look at the dangling main relay (didnt put it back in the box) and went to grab it and it bumped something metal, sparked, car shut off. Obviously that is my own stupid fault...

So maybe it was the relay all along? I'm going to buy a new one and see how that goes.

Well this problem is continuing to haunt me. Happened again about 2 weeks ago, just smacked the relay a few times and it started (this was after it sat a day without being ran).

Worked great after that, no issues. Then again the car sat for a day without being used this weekend, and it wouldn't start again.

Cranks over fine, I could hear the relay click, fuel pump primes, relay clicks again. Smacked the relay, still wouldn't work, it's a brand NEW relay. I took it out and visually checked all the solders, looks fine. So I let the car sit overnight since I didn't know what else to do, then I went out this morning just to see what would happen, and it fired up right away!

Is there something else I should check/replace?