ezra76

My '99 is dead again. It went to the dealer about 2months ago, the tech got it started by flooring it, was flooded. They replaced the cap/rotor, charged me $176 and gave the car back. They couldn't figure out what was wrong. Since then I've had to hold it to the floor to get it started and let it run till the temp guage goes up to normal range (about 10minutes). If I don't do this it will stall and take about 25-50 cranks to start back up. Now though, it is dead. Cranking and not firing. I killed the battery by trying to turn it over somewhere near 100times so will have to try to jump it tomorrow.

History is car has 95K miles. Everything has been replaced in from battery to plugs, intake has been thoroughly cleaned as well as new air filter. When car starts it idles high, little choppy and sounds like the bottom end is going to blow up. Motor and entire exhaust shakes a lot. Once it's warm, runs like it's 1999. Perfect. If I warmed it up and let you drive it, you'd buy it in a heartbeat before someone else did.

ezra76

I'm thinking about just getting a whole new intake and throttle body. I believe the problem is with the throttle body since it's acting exactly like a carbuerated engine with a bad choke/carb. What controls fuel/air on these engines when it's cold outside? Has to be something, no engine starts with the same air/fuel mixture at 20* as it does at 80*. I'm just surprised a Honda mechanic charging $100/hr. couldn't figure it out.

borat

The ECU controls the fuel/spark at all times. Your IAT (intake air temp) or ECT (engine coolant temp) sensors may be going out if you're having trouble with cold starts, since they're what the ECU uses to make corrections for temperature. Also, there's the fast-idle thermo valve (FITV) and idle air control valve (IACV) that affect how your car idles. Get a factory service manual and start troubleshooting yourself!

ezra76

Thanks. Those sensors are all parts I can unplug and replace? I just ordered a service/repair manual online. I'm hoping I can get this thing fixed. I've come close to dumping it for next to nothing a few times.

gstrudler

I'll take a shot in the dark and say it could still be an ignition problem. I had a bad ignition from MSD that behaved quite similarly to what you are describing. $176 seems pretty high; usually it's a flat rate for diagnostics (1/2hr of labor) and cap/rotor are not that expensive. I would suggest trying a different coil if they haven't done that and see what happens. If you or the dealership has access, try swapping the ECU too. Anybody else please chime in, but the problematic idle sounds like a timing problem. Your throttle body should be fine, the only thing might be the throttle position sensor (TPS), which you can test yourself if you have a multimeter. A bad ECT *should* throw a code, but could be the problem, or IAT as borat mentioned. FITV and IACV don't seem like they would be causing these kind of symptoms.

ezra76

Yeah, all they replaced was cap/rotor but to put it on the computer is $110. What a ripoff, same code I'd already seen at Autozone for free. Anyway, I got the car started this morning. Took almost an hour jumping it off another car, pumping the gas and holding the pedal to the floor. It misfired and smoked for 15-20 seconds then smoothed out. It held idle but then when I tried to take off, wouldn't hold idle. I gave it some gas taking off and it held after that. Ran it for 20 minutes, shut it down. Started fine a half hour later. I drove it and let sit for 5hrs. while doing something, it started and ran fine after that as well. Someone suggested I check for a leaking injector? How's that sound? It's obviously flooding itself while sitting, well I assume anyway since pumping and holding the gas is the only way to start it.

gstrudler

You're throwing a code? What code is it? That's always the best place to start; when your car can actually tell you what is wrong. Yeah, a leaky injector o-ring is certainly a possibility; you have to keep the gas all the way down because it's losing fuel somewhere else and not making it into the cylinder. Flooding is when there is too much gasoline in the cylinder already; having to keep your foot on the gas while starting doesn't make much sense then.

ezra76

Code is irrelevant. It's a transaxle clutch disc #2 slip. The tech told me that holding the gas down was letting more air in? I really don't know, just stood to reason since that's the same way to start a flooded carbuerator engine as well. I know it has fuel to rail, tested that with a coffe can. The plugs are getting saturated with fuel. I've changed those twice in the last 2 months.

gstrudler

Guess that makes sense (sorry, don't have much experience with flooded engines). Have you thrown a fuel pressure gauge on the rail? You might have a bad FPR that could be delivering too much fuel... if you let your car sit for a while and check the plugs are they still wet? That should tell you if your injectors are leaking through the pintle.