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iTrader: (1)

I tried searching a bit for this stuff, but a lot of it is unclear and it seems like prelude guys get side tracked really easily so the threads go nowhere

Anyway, I bought a 1997 SH with a knocking motor. Now I come to find out that this crazy ATTS thing needs a special block to bolt onto.

OPTION 1...KEEP ATTS:

So I can use one of these 2 long blocks if I wanna keep the ATTS:

-USDM H22A4 SH block
-JDM Type S red top block (yeah, i know I would need the USDM oil pump)

Correct?

Option 2:

Since I can pretty much buy a full base model swap for the price of just the red top engine, I think that I should consider the full swap as an option. My questions about that topic would be:


what is the difference between the 92-95 prelude trans and the 97-01 prelude trans in terms of swapping them over?

Basically, will the 4G trans not bolt into the 5G chassis? I would be bolting it onto a base H22 or H23 block.


Honestly, ideally, I'd like to do a H23A VTEC engine and a regular LSD (or NON LSD if it came down to it) 5spd trans. I can find the 4G transmissions for cheaper and I can find them more easily. I'm not thrilled about the ATTS even though it's fun to play around with.


I think I need the rear engine mount bracket from the base model to do the base model swap, correct? Or do I need the mount as well as the bracket? I believe the bracket comes with the swap...but not the mount.

I know I need base model axles. They come with the swap so no biggie.

Please answer the questions only if you have some sort of definitive proof/experience/something concrete. No speculation because I need to know where to spend my $$.


Thanks!

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iTrader: (1)

Man...thanks for all the help, guys

Anyway, I ended up with a H23 Bluetop motor and a M2B4 LSD trans. I'm finna switch over the oil pump for the USDM model and just plug everything in. I've done the swap with the wiring changes and....the $175 for a pump is worth not having to do those changes.

I will keep you guys updated. I'll try to be detailed so as to help people in the future.

minilogoguy18

I just didn't say since I was unsure of the rear mount but everything else is straight forward when going from SH->base, axles and an adapter for a half shaft would be all that's needed but you wont even need the adapter since your changing engines.

Why the M2B4? From all that I've read on it seems like someone would be better off building up a cheaper trans with the money spent on that one.

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iTrader: (1)

I got the M2B4 for $700 shipped with a warranty. I found a bunch of other open diff transmisions for around that price. IDK if $700 is decent or not. Seems good to me from what I've seen. But I'm new to preludes.

I found that the rear mount bracket is the same part number for the base and SH. I looked it up on www.bernardiparts.com. So apparently, the rear mount brackets are the same? I'll find out when I go to swap it lol. It's only a $40 part anyway...so if I need it, it's only a small extra.

I have, however, heard some things about people having to grind down one of the mounting brackets or something to make the H23A bolt into the 5G chassis? Not sure.

More or less, I'm just going to take everything apart and see how it fits. I'll be chronicle-ing my progress as I go.

I guess I'm going to use the USDM SH ECU and just remove the ATTS light from the gauge cluster if needed so it's not lit up.

minilogoguy18

With how much more common the H23A is getting you should be able to get a hold of the factory ECU or even a chipped ECU that has a basemap that would run it better than the SH ECU.

The grinding down part I never heard of since it's just a stroked up H22A, should mount up no problem.

Checked out this thread yet?

https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-prelude-4/jdm-h23a-vtec-blue-top-mystery-motor-true-facts-questions-2341343/

andoxviii

iTrader: (1)

^^ That's a good thread about the blue top. Hopefully someone adds it to the FAQ if it isn't already.


To the OP: I've seen you in the Civic forum quite a bit. I also switched from a Civic to the Prelude welcome to the club lol. Out of curiousity, why'd you go with the H23 instead of the H22? Is it a cost thing?

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iTrader: (1)

I wouldn't really call it a switch. This is actually my 2nd BB6. I sold my other one to a friend a while back. I still have my EM1, my ITR, and my S2000. The reason I have a prelude is that my GF now daily drives my EM1. Come to think of it, I think she comes into our garage every morning before work and decides whichever freaking car she wants to take. My ITR and my S2000 aren't exactly the most practical cars to have in Chicago. The S2000 hasn't ever seen winter and will never see winter, and there are obvious space issues. The ITR doesn't get driven in the winter either...and I can't park that car ANYWHERE without fear of theft. They both get driven daily during the summer by myself and my girlfriend....so the prelude will probably be in storage till winter comes around...or unless we decide to go to the city and not take the train (INSANITY!).

I bought the prelude as a winter time/daily driver soultion since I sold my 98 EX (I miss my 98 EX). I also figure that if I have to go to somewhere seedy, the prelude won't get lifted. Plus, I really like the prelude's chassis and fun-to-driveness vs. practicality ratio. I'm sure I'll end up tracking it maybe once or twice. Probably throw some decent tires on it in the summer and see what happens. Since S2000, ITR, and BB6 brake pads are interchangeable, I should have a spare set of Carbotech race pads floating around in the garage somewhere. To me, a track ready car is a solid runner with good brake pads/tires.

The bluetop was actually $100 more than the regular H22A. It makes more torque and it's rumored to make more power...but I don't think that's accurate. The reason I went with it is because of the torque. Torque is good in a daily driver...or...atleast I think it is....I wouldn't know. Plus I figure it's OBD2 (less age, less miles) and probably more gently used since it came out of an automatic Accord.

novelhellsing

thanks for the help

andoxviii

iTrader: (1)

Wow, you have a nice garage of cars. I wouldn't be driving that ITR anywhere, either. A buddy of mine has an S2000 and says the differential is made of glass. Would you agree with that statement? He says he's scared to even launch the car.

How much did you pay for the blue top? One of the local swap sites I always frequent has it for lower than the normal H22:
http://www.japandirectjapanese.com/home.php?cat=1
Black top, engine only = $1250 USD
Blue top, engine only = $1000 USD
Red top, engine only = $1950 USD

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iTrader: (1)

I paid $900 shipped/taxed at a local performance shop for my bluetop. Blacktops are $800. Idk of thats just "my" pricing, tho. I'm friends with the shop owner/employees.

S2000 diffs are weak, but I also think that people over exaggerate this weakness.

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iTrader: (1)

Why'd you decide to switch?

andoxviii

iTrader: (1)

I ended up taking out my D16Y7 and putting in a D15B VTEC planning for boost. I bought the main components of the OBD1 Greddy kit (TD04H-15G turbo) but then found a really good deal on a Prelude. So now I'm parting out all the parts in my Civic and selling it.

I was just sick of having no power and no options. Honda really screwed North America with the EGs and EKs. Anytime I see an EDM VTI or JDM SiR it makes me fume lol They have everything.

Pic of my Civic
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa158/andoxviii/d2d7fa9a.jpg
Pic of my Lude
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa158/andoxviii/13d0b6ac.jpg

Unlike you, it isn't within my budget to have more than one car
No, no....that isn't jealousy you're sensing lol

SleekSI

Good luck!

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iTrader: (1)

The prelude looks good. Are those real TE37s?

Thanks! This thread will be back on topic as soon as I start tearing into the car in late august. I'll document and keep you guys posted.

andoxviii

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, 17" gunmetal TE37s


Be sure to add pics of the blue top, and a pic of it installed in the engine bay. What colour is your Prelude?

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iTrader: (1)

My prelude is san moreno pink. Why is every "red" prelude always o faded?

andoxviii

iTrader: (1)

Red is bad for fading. You should see the roma red spoiler on my hatchback...

Are you going to leave the valve cover blue? It is uber-rare afterall...but if not, I'd highly recommend VHT wrinkle red, especially since you (sorta) have a red car
https://honda-tech.com/forums/showpo...postcount=2443

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iTrader: (1)

BTW, I'm going to be doing a timing belt and water pump while I'm in there doing the oil pump. What parts are nessecary for the t-belt and water pump. Do I have to buy the hydraulic part of the tensioner? Or just the tensioner pulley dealy itself?

If someone could post the nessecary part numbers, I'd be grateful.

minilogoguy18

13405-PT0-004 - Balance belt (if you keep the balance shafts, see faq)
14400-P13-014 - Timing belt
91213-PR3-004 - Cam seals x2
15114-PT0-003 - O-ring, rear balancer (if you keep the balance shafts)
19200-P13-003 - Water pump

There are 2 more seals on the oil pump that will come with the new one, front crank seal and front balance shaft seal. You only need a new tensioner if yours is leaking but if you are hoping to do anything to the valve train you might wanna convert to the manual tensioner and never worry about it again.

https://honda-tech.com/forums/all-motor-naturally-aspirated-44/%2420-h-f-balance-shaft-removal-2391818/

https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-prelude-4/h22-auto-tensioner-manual-tensioner-install-picture-intesive-549516/

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iTrader: (1)

Cool, thanks man, i really appreciate the help!

poolie

sorry if this is off topic but i need help.. i have a 2000 prelude h22a obd2, can i buy a obd1 h22 and run it in my car with a jumper harness for the ecu?

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iTrader: (1)

That is off topic, but:

You'll also need the USDM OBD2 oil pump housing. Re-use your USDM CKP sensor that's in the USDM OBD2 oil pump housing. Otherwise, you'll have to do a bunch of wiring changes to get it to run.

Use your USDM distributor.

Use your OBD2 ECU. The ECU does not care what block you have in there. As long as all the sensors are reading fine, the ECU will run the engine. You can run a OBD1 H22 block on a OBD2 H22 ECU. Hell, you can run a OBD0 B16A on a OBD2 Mazda Rotary ECU if you wired everything up correctly.

The ECU does not care what hardware you have in there. It only looks for sensor signals.

poolie

thank you that helped me.

xmarkdspot

I'm in the same predicament as you. I have a 99 prelude SH and need a new engine. SH engines are hard to come by (believe it or not even in California) - lots of base engines though. I'm looking at the Type-S engine but am not sure if I can do a direct swap - I have the ATTS tranny. I would like to keep the ATTS as much as possible.

So in your case you got the blue top and kept your ATTS?

Any tips, suggestions? Are the mounts the same? Gotchas that you've seen? Sorry... newbie to the Prelude world....

minilogoguy18

^You can't keep ATTS with the H23a, it wont bolt up.