weasel145

g1parts.com is the cheapest place for honda parts I have found. They are also a Honda dealership. They have free shipping. With free shipping they always beat the prices at hondapartsnow.com

will89

Musta missed it, but which parts require thread lock on this job when doing everything- tensioners, water pump, etc?

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

Page 6-18 step 10. For the bolt that holds the idler pulley on.

Toy Civic

Got a 2004 Pilot with 95K miles. I've owned it for three years.

I'm doing the timing belt now because I won't have the chance for the next several months as I will be on the road cross country, etc. I have a Helms manual. I've worked on Civics and Integra engines for years.

But this is the first major work I have done on a Honda V-6. The timing belt, water pump, seals, etc. are not the problem.

What is the problem is I made a mistake by aligning the crankshaft TDC mark properly, except that the bottom end is on the first cycle meaning #5 piston is at TDC, not #1 piston like the book says. I did not pay attention initially and noticed this AFTER I had the belt off. I know this because the #1 mark on the front camshaft pulley was pointed 180 degrees down and #5 camshaft pulley mark was pointed up.

I've always known that the engine block to camshaft rotation ratio is 2 to 1 meaning for every two rotations of the motor, the camshaft rotates once. But I forgot about, did not look at the camshaft markings, and only went off the crankshaft TDC mark.

The bottom end is still in this #5 TDC position as we speak. The rear camshaft pulley TDC mark is pointed down and will remain there as no valvesprings are compressed. The front camshaft pulley with #5 TDC mark pointed up DOES have compressed valvesprings and the camshaft quickly rotated about 90 degrees counterclckwise.

So..........

1) I could leave everything as is, put the belt on, while carefully wrenching the front camshaft pulley to line up the #5 mark.

2) I could rotate the bottom end 90 degrees counterclockwise, then wrench both camshaft pulleys so the #1 marks are pointed up, then rotate the motor the remaining 270 degrees counterclockwise to get the #1 piston to TDC, then install the belt as instructed in the book.

Am I missing something? Can I cause any valve or piston damage if I am wrenching the block and cams slowly by hand?

rseery

I know it's been a few days and you probably already did something, but I'd say go for your option #1. If that cam already rotated 90 degrees, I'd think you could move it back without hurting anything. With your #2, I'd be worried about something hitting (even softly). After I did your #1, I'd turn the engine over slowly with a wrench until I had TDC on Cyl1 and check all the marks. So, which one did you do and how did it work out?

Bob

Toy Civic

Everything is cool and the engine is running great. I left #5 piston at TDC. And from a response I got from another member (10 year Honda technician), it is preferable to change the belt at #5 TDC versus #1 TDC. Reason being is the camshaft alignment.

When #1 is TDC, both cams have some valvespring compression going on. It is much harder to align two camshafts when routing the belt.

But with #5 at TDC, the rear cam is perfectly aligned and has ZERO valvespring compression. The front camshaft does have fully compressed valvesprings. But wih the rotating assembly at #5 TDC, the front cam can be rotated counterclockwise or clockwise from the #5 mark on the cam pulley. I know this because when I aligned the front cam pulley to #5, you can EASILY over do it by a micrometer and the camshaft will jump clockwise. You must rotate the cam pulley back to where it was, then carefully wrench the pulley clockwise a micrometer at a time to get the #5 mark to line up.

Once I did that and the front cam pulley stayed in place, then I routed the belt counterclockwise. In that process, I ever so slightly moved the rear cam pulley clockwise. I did this to allow for any slack once I pulled the new autotensioner pin and not be off by a tooth.

The trick I used to pull the pin was a set of vise grips and a pry bar. Grip the pin the vise grips, the use the pry bar as a fulcrum.

Water pump, autotensioner and pulley, idler pulley were easy.

When removing the engine mount bracket, make sure you only loosen the bottom bolt and not try to remove it all the way using a standard rachet and socket. I wasn't paying attention, and the rachet base got butted up against the frame rail. Getting it off took a very long time.

Perhaps the most frustrating thing about this job was the re-installation of the 10mm bolt holding the oil dipstick tube to the side of the engine block. You can't see @#$! and big hands like mine will have a hard time trying to get the bolt started.

Crankshaft oil seal was super easy. For the cam seals, I bought them but did not replace. I should have unloosened the cam pulley bolts first before removing the belt. Because once the belt is off, those cam pulley bolts may not come off.

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

Glad you got it figured out. Yeah I would have definitely rolled that cam backwards 90* to it's original spot. It moved there on it's own with no interference from the piston domes, so you know there will be no issues rolling it back. If you went forward 270*, you would definitely risk pushing valves against piston domes should any pistons sit at TDC on that bank.

I'm going to be doing my own 04 pilot soon. I hope to take pictures this time around so we can have mucho visual reference...

Some bonus info: I recently found out that Gates is the manufacture for most of Honda's Japanese belts. In Asia, gates operates under the name Unitta. And guess what name was printed on my brand new Integra Type R timing belt straight from Acura. After some research, I've found that the Gates timing belt kit TCK286 for the pilot also contains OEM Koyo brand tensioner bearing and idler bearing. That means you can get all 3 parts for the low low price of $57shipped on Amazon. That saves you about $50 right there, and it's all OEM parts (in different boxes). You can also buy the gates kit with gates brand (non-oem) water pump and auto-tensioner for $200 (TCKWP286)

Gates TCK286 for 03-04 Pilot:

loknar28

First, I would like to say "Thank You" to 94eg! for starting this great thread. The information from both the service manual pages and observations by posters was invaluable prepping to replace the timing belt on my wife's 2004 Pilot.
After plenty of research, I took some time off from work allowing two full days to complete the job. I replaced all of the belts, water pump, thermostat, as well as the cam and crankshaft oil seals.
I used the Lisle 58430 Shaft Type Seal Puller to extract the cam and crank seals. The tool made this very easy. To properly instal the new seals I used an 1.5x1.25 PVC reducer fitting with a metal electrical box cover-plate. I used the cam/crank bolts through the knock-out on the cover plate to slowly press the reducer against the new seals.
The Gear Wrench 3680 Serpentine Belt Tool 16 Piece Set was extremely handy. It was one of the best tool purchases I have made in a long time.
I was wondering how to keep the cam pulleys from moving while they were off to do the seals and ended up buying the Lisle 36880 Dual Overhead Cam Lock Tool. First off, do not buy this tool, as it does not fit the v6 pilot. When they say dual cam they must mean DOHC for a 4 cylinder only, since it is way too small to reach both cams to lock them. It does not really mater though, as the tool is not really needed since the cam pulleys are keyed to the shaft. The thermostat was a "PITA" because Honda located a rather nasty section of the wiring harness and associated brackets right next to the lower bolt on the cover requiring them to be disconnected and moved out of the way just to get a wrench onto it. As most everyone here has indicated the crankshaft pulley is probably the biggest challenge. I rented a 3/4" drive 400 ft lb electric impact wrench and it did not even come close to cracking the bolt loose. What ended up working for me, was to use a propane torch to heat the bolt. "Disclaimer - metal will get hot, attempt at your own risk" ;-) This type of torch does not get hot enough to turn the bolt orange however, and it does not need to. You just need to give the torch enough time to evenly heat the bolt, so a good 5 minutes would not be a bad idea. You should be able to crack it with an 18" breaker bar at that point. I am not sure it this would burn the crank seal or not, but in my case it did not matter as I was replacing it anyway. If you have never attempted this job, make sure to allow yourself two full days.

bumere46

Thanks for posting this DIY.
I was able to remove the crankshaft bolt with a starter method. Impacts didn't work.
Does anybody know how to properly put back and tighten the crankshaft bolt? Do I just use my impact gun?

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

To torque the bolt you need a torque wrench and the crank pulley holder tool. Torque to 181 ft/lbs I believe. If you just impact it on there, you run the risk of it falling off later on down the road.

FirstModelYear

per my Odyssey 05-06 service manual, it specifically states not to use an impact wrench. (But doesn't say why not).

Directions for tightening the crankshaft bolt in the manual say to torque to 47 lbf-ft and then tighten the bolt an additional 60 degrees.

FirstModelYear

Has anyone replaced the crankshaft oil seal on a 2005-2006 Odyssey (or equivalent engine) when doing this job?

Per the service manual, it says to remove the crankshaft position (CKP) sensor. After installation it then states I need to do the CKP pattern clear/CKP pattern learn procedure... which appears to require a special electronic tool.

Has anyone done this... is it really required?

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

Well the CKP definitely has to be removed in order to access the front main seal. But the only reason I would even bother is if it was leaking. Seals are not preventative maintenance.

BTW: I've never once heard of a Honda service manual telling you to tighten any bolt to a specific degree. They always use torque values. Do you have the Honda/Helm-inc shop manual?

FirstModelYear

Yeah, Honda service manual I ordered from Helms. Page 6-71 of the 2005-2006 Odyssey service manual. It specifies to torque it to 47 ft/lbs and then tighten another 60 degrees.

So don't bother change the crank seal then... what about the camshaft seals, would you leave these alone as well?

Thanks

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

I don't touch any seals if they aren't leaking. It's not really a "wear" item. They could fail tomorrow or last forever. You run the same risk with new ones too. The good news is that if you ever do develop a leak, you'll be able to get back in there and fix it with little trouble.

Interesting shop manual info BTW.

AC25

Hi should I have the vales adjusted on the Pilot? Because I am having the belt and the water pump replace but I am not sure if I should do the vales done? Miles on the Pilot are 115000.
Alex

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

It's recommended but doesn't have to be done at the same time. There are no parts removed when doing a timing belt that help gain access for a valve adjustment (so don't let them tell/sell you like that).

It should be done at 105k, but if they are not noisy, there is no harm in going longer. The entire intake manifold has to be removed to get into the rear cyl-head, so it's pretty involved. Some guys will just remove the rear intake manifold cover, but there is little room when going this route.

Here is the job on an 04. The first page shows just the front cyl head. The last page shows pic for the rear cyl head:

http://www.piloteers.org/forums/18-m...djustment.html

04 Honda Pilot

I know I'm replying to an out dated post 2009
I'm new to this site and am still in my 15 days
I came here to receive help

Honda Pilot 2004

Timing Belt (t. belt) Replacement:

Followed Honda Manuals instructions

-before taking t. belt off front/rear camshaft TDC and crankshaft TDC marks all aligned

-putting new belt on started from idler pulley end went counter clockwise
belt slipped and rear camshaft moved (not sure if it moved counter/clockwise)
mark on rear cam is now 2-3 inches clockwise from TDC mark on
metal backplate

-All TDC marks are Aligned except rear cam

??? Which way to turn (can you turn either direction) rear cam. pulley to reach TDC


??? How to turn using only hands


??? Can you use tools like a wrench and place on pulley bolt


??? easier way to install t. belt, have followed the manual and installed auto-adjuster, battery clamp to hold t. belt adjuster, and idler pulley


???is there a way to keep the f/r camshaft pulleys from turning when installing t. belt


Thamks and hopefully someone can help

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

That's odd, I am replacing my timing belt today as well. I tried to respond to your PM, but your inbox says it's full.

04 Honda Pilot

I tried to make some folders to move messages to provide an empty inbox; but, ran out of time and haven't yet!

I posted in the forum where you replied

Thanks

PS Because I'm new I think they've limited my inbox. I'm hoping in a couple of days to have more space. Maybe you have some ideas for allowing more messages in inbox?

Thanks

04 Honda Pilot

Timing belt completed, thanks for the advice and info.

The problem I have now is I think my power steering (p.s.) pump went out. I believe the tests the owners manual had me do to adjust the p.s. belt tension caused it.

-Torque belt 165-198lb-f ; new belt
-turn over engine and run for 5 min.
-retorque 88-121lb-f ; used (after running for 5 min. now new belt is considered used and torque acordingly)
-turn steering wheel from lock to lock, several times and readjust belt
(it was doing this when I believe the pump went out--in the owner's manual it mentions when doing lock to lock don't hold it there for very long due to the possibility of damaging the p.s. pump)

I'm confused on why they give instructions for belt tension adjustment test if there is a possibility of damaging the part?

Do you know where you can get a good deal on the pump there pretty pricey?
$200-600?
I've never pulled a pulley, do I need a press to place it in the new pump?

And what do you use to plug the lines that have p.s. fluid and to also prevent particulate from entering the system?

Thanks

eddiegeorge

I am about to take on this task on my '04 Pilot in the spring. I did this on my '01 Civic 2 years ago and purchased a Moroso 61805 for that task. It was perfect for breaking the crank bolt. At first glance, it looks like it will do the job on the Pilot as well. Can anybody confirm or deny this? The tools suggested by others in this thread are shorter. The Moroso is one piece and about 4' long.

That said, thank you for the info in this thread thus far. Excellent information!

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

I'm sorry but I don't know about torquing the PS belt. What are you measuring that with?

The PS belt has an absurd adjustment mechanism. The problem is when you loosen the bolts to adjust it, the whole pump gets cocked at an angle. This makes it VERY hard to set the belt tension before torquing all the bolts. I only set the belt by feel through repeated trial & error. I made it so the belt feels like it has the same tension as the AC/Alt belt. If it's too lose it will slip and make a bunch of noise, so you will know.

What book were you getting that adjustment procedure from? Are you sure it's the Owners Manual?

BTW: Car-part.com is a good place to look for used parts. It's a database of most of the parts yards in America.

04 Honda Pilot

THE OWNERS MANUAL IN MY POSSESION IS ''PILOT:2003-2004 SERVICE MANUAL"

THE INFORMATION I MENTIONED IS REFERED TO IN THE MANUAL ON 17-12 "POWER STEERING: PUMP BELT INSPECTION AND ADJUSTMENT"

THE TOOL I'M USING FOR MEASURING THE TORQUE IS "DAYCO BELT TENSION GAUGE/N 93866"

THE POWER STEERING SYSTEM IN THE HONDA IS SUBPAR--THEY NEED TO DRUG TEST THE ENGINEER THAT DESIGNED THIS SYSTEM

DO YOU KNOW OF GOOD INSTRUCTIONS ON BYPASSING THE HONDA POWER STEERING PUMP?

MAYBE YOU COULD TAKE A LOOK AT THE NEW THREAD I POSTED "2004 HONDA PILOT FRONT HYDRALIC ENGINE MOUNT" I'VE GOT A LEAK AND NOT GOOD AT TROUBLESHOOTING IT.

THANKS FOR YOUR HELP

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

If a motor mount is leaking, then it just needs to be replaced. It's the rubber that has split down to the fluid sack inside, so there is no way to repair it. I'm not too sure about how, but It can't be that difficult. Should be outlined in your manual.

If you want to eliminate PS all together, then you should look in the Integra Type R forum. There is a whole long thread about doing this. You need to loop the input & output hoses on the Rack, then you need to tee into the fluid lines on the rack and add a reservoir to allow air to pump in & out of the rack as you turn the wheel back & forth. The reservoir is to make sure fluid doesn't get spit out because the rack still need to remain about half full for internal lubrication.

The pilot is awful heavy to not have PS though...