90Rexx

im glad they didnt use the sw388's... but i still dont agree with the color on those wheels... i think they would look just fine in silver.

mustclime

Huge fail.....you can not drop a macpherson strut car without it handling like total crap. Didn't these clowns learn this with the ep3/dc5? Once the lca angles up from the center of the car, turning loads force the suspension through it travel and you are on your bumpstops unless you are using huge spring rates to hold the car up. Heck, here the head of spoon saying you should not lower these cars....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPpii8rafrU

about 1/2 way though.........morons!

kelsodeez

heres some more info on the car from the type one blog

http://spoon-mechanic.seesaa.net/

thundernoodle

lol engrish

96EJ6LX

^^x2

DrZFiNeSt

iTrader: (1)

Damn Mustclim that video is harsh for EP and DC5 owners

AnointedDC5

Isn't that what RCA's were made for, to correct the LCA angles?

mustclime

They are more for cars with type-r drops of around 0.75 inchs. The minute you get the lca angles angled up from the ceter of the car under conering load, that load will push the suspension through its travel. As a rule, if you have streetable springs in a mcstrut car, you need the lac's angled down from the ceter of the car. If you have some huge rate springs ( dc5/ep3 like 550lb + ), then you can lower the car to the point where the lca is flat. Soft springs take a set in a turn, so you need to comensate with a downward angle from center while the car is sitting.

Spaceballsthelunchbox

So they got the idea for the color of the rims from the car lift.
Very clever.
I still would like to know what happens to the electric assist motor if you increase HP.
Is there a clutch between it and the engine or is it a direct drive?

Blue-Civic-Hybrid

iTrader: (1)

But don't you think these tuning companies might come up with something slightly better than the stock components? After seeing the video, yes it seems even Spoon canceled the suspension components but not necessarily for that reason. More than likely since so many other suspension companies were making the components, the profit margin would not be that great.

As for the CR-Z, I'm going to guess that the suspension used on it in the pictures might be in the experimental stage. No need to be so negative on what they have done, not all of us are great autocrossers like yourself.

Remember the CR-Z is supposed to be a "sporty hybrid", the first for a Honda. If slightly lowering it improves handling, then it is a positive. I'm sure the engineers who work on these items have found a cost effective way to produce something that actually works.

enjoy

Antirevolution

I love the things that spoon and mugen do to the cars but honestly, the front of of the car is still very ugly to me.

joexiong

iTrader: (2)

my god that's hot!

DC5RK20A

The easy fix for the tie rods is mounting them upside down once the car is lowered. The roll center adjusters don't fix the problem of the tie rods sitting like \ / when lowered, but mounting them on the underside of the mount will drastically reduce the angle. Can't just mount them to the underside, still need an adapter. I had this on my old 5R Teggy when I lowered it about 50mm with the Toda sussy. Also had the J's RCA as well. The car handled very nicely and was more oversteer happy on throttle and even more so with lift-off (of course) than it was understeer, but mostly was quite neutral in handling.

mustclime

Not trying to be negative. The problem is with the honda tuners, they got spoiled with upper and lower control arm front suspension designs on the early hondas. On those suspensions the more you lowered them, the more negative camber you got. Working with a macpherson strut suspension is a whole differnt world....let me start with a pic of the ep3 and fg2 front suspensions.....



look at the top 2 pics, they are views from the rear....now think of those cars making a long hard right hand turn..how is the force handled?

1)you turn the wheel to the right, and the wheel turns.
2) that squair parch of rubber grips, force is transmited up the wheel, through the knuckle down the lca into the body of the car through the subframe.
3) the mass of the car wants to go strait so the load on outside strut/spring increases and the spring compresses, the lca moves up in relation to the body. This pushes the drivers side sway up and that inturn pulls passenger side lca up degreasing grip to the inside tire.
This is the important part....4) As long as the lca stays angled down or flat with relation to the body, the force created by the grip of the tire goes down the lca into the body. If on the other hand, the lca angles up from the center of the car, then part of that force will put more load on the spring and force the suspension through its travel till the body is on the bumpstop of the strut. You now have positie camber and a understeering pig.

This is why you do not lower mcstrut cars. If you are running streetable springs, then you need the lca's to angle down from the center of the car to compensate for the car taking a set in the turn. If on the other hand you are running st00pid high spring rates, then you can lower the car so the lca is flat from the center of the car. The minute you lower the car to the point that the lca is angled up from the center of the car, you have to go nuts with the spring rates, think about spring rates that ar half of the total cars curb weight to hold that thing off the bumpstops.

You want a real brain fock?.....Say you buy your new crz and buy some wider rims and stickie tires, whats going to happen to the suspension in a turn? Is going to settle more in a turn and you will most likly end up with a crz on its bumpstops in the turns......tires set the spring rates, spring rates set the damper rates. Say you do not want to up the spring rates and and dampers, so you get some stiffer sways....well since you only decrease grip with sways by trasfering all the grip to the outside tire, thats kinda a fail also. lol

Blue-Civic-Hybrid

iTrader: (1)

MustClime, thanks for the visual and the education on these "McStrut" type of cars. You are correct in saying that I have been spoiled by the double wishbone setups of my Civic, CRX, and even my old S2000.

Looking at your pictures, I can see how this would pose a problem in the handling department but I seem to remember reading somewhere that an automaker has "solved" the mcstrut problem on their cars and still uses struts.

I can't remember if it was VW or Porsche (almost the same company anyway)

FormulaJDM

Hahhahahaa! Your post made my month.

cibao2ner

i dont know if it was mention before but wouldnt the reverse tie rods and extended ball joints solve the problem on lowerd ep3/dc5s...since it will keep the lca angle down with a decent drop..not slammed..

BTOTHE

that looks so good....the blue looks sweet

mustclime

I think you missed my point.....bmw,vw and porsche all do not lower their cars past the point where the lca goes flat. I autoX an ep3 and my "mad fender gap" ep tends to crush the guys running a big drop times. They just go from turn to turn on their bumpstops. The same will happen to the crz that is lowered.

unusual71

great looking car, love the wheels. I guess they are definitely a love/hate style.
car could use some normal mirrors and some better lookin' tail lights.

BadassEFdriver

That looks siiccckk no lie. Better be a K-swap in there

hybridcivicex

The more and more I see of the CRZ, the more it is growing on me and I am actually liking it.

cibao2ner

not crz but you guys might like...


were having trouble adjusting the suspension..the ksport are garbage..we have T1r reverse tie rods and they dont have enough thread the steering is messed up..any tips? why are the reverse tie rods so short they are supose to be longer..

EP3Moschini

id go back to stock tie rod ends (most people snap there T1R's and crash)

get a Koni yellow / ground control set-up and ditch the crapsports you have on there

cibao2ner

im thinking of going buddy club racing spec its not a daily..i rather handling than comfort..