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Ordered up the dual pump upgrade quick spool kit from automotiveknd.com.
Thinking Hondata is going to be a requirement, that cat efficiency CEL is driving me crazy. Plus then I could toy with traction control and see how much the rear contributes.
Added camber to the front at the knuckle, wow. That really highlights how poorly the rear sticks on the stock torsion beam rear axle.
Brian Gillespie mentioned traction control in his insight with 4" tread width and how stable it made the car in his video. I wonder if AWD will make it redundant
Now that HRV rear torsion beam is real interesting. Clearance and hubs for rear drive. Hmmmm....
Yeah with the way AWD works the traction control might be redundant. Need a certain amount of slip in the front to get the rear to bite. Not finding much data on the Hondata traction control in an AWD application.
HRV axle under Insight. I can still fudge it a bit lower and forward a bit I just ran out of time. It's about 3/4 inch longer in swing arm length, almost 8" wider hub face to hub face. Compared to an actual HRV this axle is lower than ride height a bit angle wise.
So suspension pickup points are going to need some fabrication? And 8" cut out of the center of the beam.
Definitely all new suspension pickup points although the are very close to the general vicinity, the angle of the beam on the table would be compressed if it was mounted on the HRV, the level at which the hubs are in the pics would be a bit lower than stock Insight, I "THINK" the arch will clear with the exception of maybe the extremely lowered. I've been by the dealership a few times hoping to catch one on the lift but only FWDs as of late. I'm not very concerned with getting low to the ground but I could see maybe trimming it a bit under the arch and reinforcing above if that's the goal. OEM hubs are $300, Autozone/Moog lists for $250 each but not available. I'll be going Element hub, Rsx disk/caliper and some steel plate. Next week or two I will have a temp bracket made with the axle on the car with at least a rim.
Have ran a 2006 TSX MT ECU from day one. Never terribly happy with the DBW throttle response. Always been soft and laggy.
Today replaced the ECU with a 2007 TSX AT ECU in prep for Hondata. Holy cow! The DBW feels exactly like a cable throttle now, very sharp response! It does now have a rev hang between gears but that actually works to my advantage with the light weight flywheel. Having to learn how to drive this thing all over again.
PCM is very unhappy about not having an automatic transmission to talk to but it does run and drive and seems to behave okay other than cruise control won't work. Will be loading the MT program in when the Hondata arrives.
Poking around the configs for Hondata it looks like the AT did not have throttle smoothing while the MT did. Maybe that is the difference. Maybe if I am feeling frisky I will pull the ECU from the 2004 AT I have and put it in the Insight and see if I get the same results.
Anyway, having throttle response makes this thing soooo much more lively to drive.
The most common complaint with factory TSXs is the DBW throttle delay. In the past, the only solution was an 03-05 Accord or RSX cable throttle body, Accord ECU, a different manifold and customizable ECU. You'd lose cruise, VSA and have rev fluctuations. I want to say a simple reflash from Kpro/Ktuner solves most of the issue now without other complications.
What was the purpose of the delay anyway? Lessens driveline shock?
I wasn't about to give up cruise control on a daily for some throttle response so I lived with it. But seems I can have my cake and eat it! Also if we are to believe those Australian's DBW is superior, no idle air valves and you can do fun stuff like launch control, flat shift, traction control, and change throttle response with changing the response curve.
With this AT PCM before Hondata the throttle responds so quickly you can get that intake bark when you stab the throttle just like a cable throttle.
Yes, probably driveline shock. Also to make the car feel more like a luxury vehicle. Somewhat weak transmission in a rather heavy car with a decent amount of torque, would make sense they would program in some softness.
I used an HID kit, the Morimoto Mini D2S 4.0 with a 50watt ballast and a 4500k D2S bulb. This has a built in high beam as well unlike the H1 projectors on ebay. Also uses a real HID bulb socket.
To make the Koni strut insert work you need to have a sleeve machined to make the tip of the Civic strut similar to the Insight strut. I would bet if you ordered a GC kit for a Civic you would get the correct sleeve. I then reused the Insight top hat so no modifications to the car required.
Yes, 475 is far too stiff, would probably work on a steel body car that is 1000lbs heavier. Going to require some math and thinking to figure out what spring I would need to order. The GC spring for the Insight is a custom length and spring rate. Would need a longer and softer spring. The good news is, it is a standard 2.5" ID spring. The GC spring spec is 475lbs 5.5" length 2.5" ID.
As for the GAZ shocks, they work. I do have a major concern about the longevity. The purple condom thing has already rubbed all the zinc plating off the shock body. Should turn into a nasty rust here soon. Poor design. Probably should have done the Koni shock that fits the old Porsche 934? 943? Anyway they make a strut that would fit and that is adjustable.
I am happy to read that you managed to use a Civic strut insert. Could you give more informations on what was involved ? Wich one you used? 50mm 2001-2002 or 55 2003-2005?
I am happy to read that you managed to use a Civic strut insert. Could you give more informations on what was involved ? Wich one you used? 50mm 2001-2002 or 55 2003-2005?
thank you
01-05 Civic 2 & 4 door w/ 50 mm OD factory strut housing excl. Si - Sport (Yellow) Front
Part #: 8641 1416Sport
Was not direct bolt in to the Insight top hat. Could take a Civic top hat and redrill to match the Insight mounting holes. Probably the best solution.
I thought that all EM2/EP3/RSX struts were all dimensionally the same??
Negative!
Early EM2 Civics ran a 50mm strut shaft and later used a 55mm shaft. Also smaller hubs and bearings.
Early RSX used a 14mm strut pinch bolt and later used a 16mm bolt.
Just played this game in getting Wilwoods to fit. Had EM2 knuckles with the smaller bearing, had to machine an RSX hub to fit. Wilwoods showed the hub to brake caliper mount was wrong on my altered hubs. Had to hunt down RSX knuckles and learned there was a difference in years. EM2 next to RSX the RSX knuckle is much larger.
Just when you think you know things....... So I have RSX base knuckles (OK with smaller CV joints but at this point don't care, I also have some RSX Koni Yellow inserts in the for sale bin that I'd love to use but they just seemed too tall. At this point I was going to get some skunk2 shortened struts and call it a day but the idea of stock struts with insert would be really nice.
I think part of our problem with knuckle swaps is the EM2/EP3/RSX knuckle acts as a lift spindle. The distance between pinch bolts and hub center is greater lifting the front of the car. We compensate by lowering springs and using up strut travel. I only have ~1" of travel to a 2/3rd length stock bump stop.
I have been contemplating raising the strut tower and flipping the steering joint to mount from the bottom.... Would be nice if you guys can hurry and figure this out soon!! LOL!!
flipping the steering joint to mount from the bottom....
Don't do that! That really screws up the bump steer! Trying to hunt down the whitepaper a guy did for his thesis on DC5 roll center and bump steer. Making the steering links closer to parallel to the ground REALLY screws up bump steer. His paper shows you want more angle to them to get a more favorable curve.
Here's my deathtrap.. Still need to finish up a few things before I can get it on the road again
Current set up:
K20z1 bottom/K20z3 head
TSX Trans/Z3 LSD
Skunk2 Manifold/TB
Custom Turbo Kit / 62mm Turbo
Just wanted to thank Ryan & Bongo for all the info in this thread.
Doing a 2000 insight swap for a daily driver and just acquired a K24 with m/t out of a 03 Accord. Still trying to research and figure out the best and easiest knuckle setup to use.
05-29-2019, 09:25 AM
Re: Offical k20/k24 swaped insights
