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Offical k20/k24 swaped insights

 
Old 03-08-2018, 05:53 AM
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Default Re: Offical k20/k24 swaped insights

How deep down the can bus rabbit hole do you want to go?

Want the step by step or the copy and paste this into an arduino?

I would just do a clutch kit with flywheel. They are pretty inexpensive. My TSX needed a clutch, was able to dump the crappy feeling European clutch and get an Exedy. The Exedy kit comes with a flywheel because the TSX clutch is so odd. TSX was such an odd duck, they were trying to make the car feel European with the wonky floor mounted gas pedal and Luk brand euro clutch. Now it feels like any other Honda.
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Old 03-09-2018, 11:08 AM
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Default Re: Offical k20/k24 swaped insights

Haven't written code since 1999 (C++). For the sake of brevity copy and paste. Future members reading this post will thank you. How do the pro shops get by the AC and cruise? K-pro?

Interesting...looked up a few kits with flywheels. Might go that route if the Accord bits look worn. My A2 came with an auto so I'd need flywheel bolts too.

I'll have to figure out a way to power the fuse panel in the junkyard with a small 12v to read digital odometers of Accords. If they have a selection I'll choose the lowest mile example.
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Old 03-09-2018, 11:43 AM
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Default Re: Offical k20/k24 swaped insights

Okay, I will get the code cleaned up and verified. Might rewrite it for an Uno rather than a Mega. No need for the Mega if you are not also driving an 06+ S2000 cluster.
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Old 03-10-2018, 03:03 PM
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Default Re: Offical k20/k24 swaped insights

Found an answer to your question about stock Insights. Talked to a K-swapper who lives a state away. He weighed his Insight at a co-op before and after the conversion. 1840# before and 1820# after a K20 and half a tank of fuel but no driver. He removed his AC and ABS post-swap, however. Did you weigh yours with a driver?
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Old 03-10-2018, 03:39 PM
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Default Re: Offical k20/k24 swaped insights

Hmmm, I would like to get to the bottom of this myself. Maybe the scales are not liking the slope of my driveway and the exposed aggregate.

The other car I tested was 76lbs over factory spec. But also had a half a tank of fuel and has a spare tire and jack in place of the can of fix a flat.

Not sure why my Insight would be +300lbs. No driver when weighing. K20 is lighter than the K24. And the K24A2 is the heaviest of the K24's. Still 300lbs is a lot of extra mass or error.
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Old 05-25-2018, 05:24 PM
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Been a couple months, made some progress. Stripped my K24a2 of accessories and am looking for tuneup issues (water pump, plugs, seals, etc) on this "121k" engine that I suspect is closer to 181k I Am FINALLY about to strip an '06 Accord of it's manual transmission (clutch, flywheel, slave cylinder, shift cables) and was wondering if there was anything else that would cross over to the a2? Perhaps the fuel pump that you replaced?

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Old 07-05-2018, 06:24 PM
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Default Re: Offical k20/k24 swaped insights

Originally Posted by Ryanthegreat1 View Post
Stock TSX ECU. It is DBW and I am still running the DBW. The accelerator pedal position sensor on the TSX lives in the engine bay and still has a wire throttle cable from the pedal to the sensor. The control relay and power supply for the throttle body live in the passenger foot well just like on a TSX. Nearly all of the DBW wiring is on the engine wire harness. Only had to graft the control relay into the Insight.
With my engine nearly assembled I've begun the wiring process, which I fear more than a rapid cougar attack. Ryanthegreat1 is the only person I know who has successfully run stock TSX ECU and DBW throttle. What harness(es) did you use and what modifications were needed to squash the CELs and make the relay play nice with everything else? I'm running an Accord 5-speed trans so a few connectors won't be needed vs. 6-speed.

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Old 07-05-2018, 07:50 PM
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Default Re: Offical k20/k24 swaped insights

Full stock TSX engine harness. DBW is nearly all on the engine harness.

DBW relay needs to be triggered with the main relay. ECU stays awake after key off and if the DBW controller does not also stay on you will get a check engine light for loss of communication to the module.

No wiring difference between 5 speed and 6 speed. Well maybe no reverse lockout solenoid on the 5 speed? Won't be an issue.
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Old 07-05-2018, 09:13 PM
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Default Re: Offical k20/k24 swaped insights

Ah, I'm assuming my auto TSX harness is more trouble than it's worth to adapt. Better to source a manual version?

I have the DBW relay but haven't looked into how to integrate it into everything, what wire goes where yet.

Correct. No reverse lockout on 5-speed.

With stock TSX wiring/ECU will I have stock Insight cluster functions (minus associated hybrid gauges of course)? Can't be that easy lol.

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Old 07-06-2018, 06:04 AM
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Default Re: Offical k20/k24 swaped insights

Uhh no, not that easy.

There is a tach output on the TSX ECU but everything else is CAN bus. Engine temp, speedo, check engine, are all on F-CAN.

Arduino makes a nice signal converter with hours of reverse engineering the TSX F-CAN and writing code to read that data and then convert it to analog signals.
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Old 07-06-2018, 02:28 PM
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Default Re: Offical k20/k24 swaped insights

Your responses are always helpful but I may have hit a wall on wiring. The learning curve to make all this work is several dozen hours above my pay grade. I've never programmed, datalogged, converted signals or even understood the concept of CAN bus besides one wire does the duty of several. May have to contract this out to get this project on to the next phase. I'd like stock TSX harness/ECU with factory Insight gauges vs expensive Type S + Kpro but I'll have to send out feelers and see what's possible on my budget.

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Old 07-09-2018, 01:16 AM
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Default Re: Offical k20/k24 swaped insights

Relative long shot but would using a stock TSX cluster instead of the Insight one alleviate anything (assuming TSX ECU and harness)?
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Old 07-18-2018, 10:43 AM
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Default Re: Offical k20/k24 swaped insights

You could use the TSX cluster I guess? Not sure it will show doors ajar or make the dome light work when you open the doors. The TSX put all that on the muliplex unit.

If I could find someone to send me CAN bus logs from a TSX I would spill the beans on how mine works.
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Old 07-24-2018, 02:22 PM
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Default Re: Offical k20/k24 swaped insights

If I understand it correctly I could run a stock TSX ECU/engine harness (with conversion harness to mate to the chassis)/cluster/immobilzer/key and I'd have regular functions (speedo, temp, tach, coolant, etc) bc the ECU sends signals straight to the cluster via F-CAN. I'd probably have a litany of DTC codes for door multiplexer functions and no VSA, etc but I could still pass inspection as those error codes are not the same as a CEL. I can live with that. The A/C function runs elsewhere, probably from the climate control to the relay control module? Still iffy on that one.
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Old 07-26-2018, 10:57 AM
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Default Re: Offical k20/k24 swaped insights

You will end up with the ABS, VSA, and Traction control dummy lights on the dash. There will be a code set for F-CAN failure. I don't think it will cause a CEL. I will have to double check on that one.

It can all be fooled into working correctly. I really need a log file of data collected off F-CAN on working car and I can make this all work.

Oh and the fuel gauge won't work. TSX resistance is 4x higher on the sender and goes backwards from the Insight.
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Old 08-08-2018, 10:20 PM
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Default Re: Offical k20/k24 swaped insights

How would one log F-CAN data off a TSX? What all is needed? Just in case I run across one and can help out.
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Old 09-03-2018, 07:32 AM
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Default Re: Offical k20/k24 swaped insights

Just hack up a DA Integra radiator to fit, it will be easy they said. Should have just bought a core.

Stock Insight radiator was not up to the task on 95 degree days running down the highway at 80 with the AC running. Water temps would get up around 215. Slowing down or exiting the highway and temps would drop right away.

I would like to know how LHT gets away with a stock radiator on a turbo K20 in Florida heat.
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Old 10-07-2018, 08:37 AM
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Default Re: Offical k20/k24 swaped insights

In the interest of finishing the CAN bus piece of my swap I had this thing follow me home.

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Old 10-10-2018, 06:17 AM
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Default Re: Offical k20/k24 swaped insights

Can confirm I have found the CAN bus signal for AC. Works perfect, no more idle drop when the clutch hits!

Now for some Cruise Control. I was way wrong on the VSA/ABS stuff. Had the IDs right but the data was bad. Guess that is expected when you power on the ABS module with no sensors plugged in and you guess values that mean "Everything is okay".
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Old 10-25-2018, 09:59 AM
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Default Re: Offical k20/k24 swaped insights

I now have cruise control working correctly.

Had nothing to do with VSA/ABS. Factory electrical troubleshooting manual for both 04 and the 06-07 versions show the clutch pedal position switch as being normally open. This is incorrect, the switch is normally closed! Not to be confused with the starter lockout switch that is also on the clutch pedal, that one is normally open.

I am going to call the integration process complete now. I mean I could figure out the maintenance minder from the TSX and apply it to the oil life counter on the 06+ S2000 cluster. Not a feature I would ever use. I think there is also a check fuel cap message on both the TSX and S2000.
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Old 04-25-2019, 07:04 PM
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Default Re: Offical k20/k24 swaped insights

Well my swap has been dead reliable. Nothing but oil changes and tires. Great little car that catches a lot of people by surprise.

So I have chosen to start the next chapter on this project.



I think I might have a thing for blue vehicles now.
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Old 04-25-2019, 09:02 PM
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Default Re: Offical k20/k24 swaped insights

Glad to hear it's been smooth sailing. What's a CRV have to do with your project? The chassis or the engine?

My progress has slowed to a trickle but it is still moving forward. Rebuilt an Accord trans using 3 cores, got my LCAs machined and adapted, rebuilt spindles with new bearings, hubs, calipers, etc. Hasport has mounts out now. Currently researching a Del Sol cluster swap and wondering if I need to add an A/C wire to a conversion harness I had made. Insight dash plug A17 to RSX plug E18, both labelled "ACC" on schematics?

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Old 04-26-2019, 05:38 AM
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Default Re: Offical k20/k24 swaped insights

AWD! And rear disc, and independent rear suspension.


You are still making good progress!

ACC is the AC Clutch Control this is the wire the ECU uses to turn the AC clutch relay on and off. Still need the AC request input from the HVAC panel to the ECU. A27 ACS on the Insight ECU plug is the request from the HVAC unit. On the TSX I had to convert this on/off signal to CAN bus. Not sure how the RSX gets the AC request. I think it has a body controller that is serial to the ECU.

You can just connect A17 to A27 and the AC will work but the ECU won't know when the compressor is running so idle will be sloppy and there is no load or rpm cutout using this method. Also no overheat cutout.

On the lower control arms, anyone watch Speed Academy? Watch the videos on their Abandoned STI, those front lower control arms are VERY similar. They have the ball joints going the correct direction. Look up a 2008 Impreza WRX STI front lower.
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Old 04-26-2019, 01:30 PM
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Default Re: Offical k20/k24 swaped insights

I came to update my thread which is once again taking a radical turn, among other thing how Ironic that this came today.... (06 element)
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Old 04-29-2019, 12:35 PM
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Default Re: Offical k20/k24 swaped insights

Oh man!

I was going to piece together my AWD parts but it just wasn't economical around here. Got an 06 AWD Manual from insurance auction for about the price of a manual AWD tranny.

Drove the CR-V around a bit, drives nice and AWD works very well. 2006 CR-Vs got a rear end upgrade that included a ramp clutch to speed of the transfer of power to the rear. Nothing like the old dual pump or viscous coupler AWD. Wet grass hill and the front tires maybe get 1/4 rotation before the rear starts digging. Same hill I got my AWD wagon stuck on better tires.

Can't wait to get started!
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