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The CR-Z modifications thread. Theories, ideas, and discussion.

 
Old 09-10-2010, 01:19 PM
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Default The CR-Z modifications thread. Theories, ideas, and discussion.

The CR-Z modifications thread. Theories, ideas, and discussion.

The title pretty much says it all. I've found myself wondering for the past few days, wondering about what the future holds for CR-Zs and Honda enthusiasts. The car has just been released, and there's been a lot of buzz surrounding it for years. I'm looking at the big picture, which is the fact that this car is going to have a following, Hondas in general are pretty good at keeping enthusiast's interest for 20 years and beyond regardless of the model.

The CR-X is 25+ years old and still has a large following, and people still manage to do stuff with them that blows people away on the track, the shows, or the message boards. When it was released way back when, it took a long time until we started seeing some of the stuff we do now. Just like the CR-X, the Civics, Integras, and all the others, the CR-Z will take some time to depreciate and wind up in the hands of the enthusiasts who build them for their own purposes.

In the meantime, shops and racers with sponsorship backing, or the average Joes with above average bank accounts will be doing their thing showing us what's possible. There's threads here that already show, the aftermarket and the shops are working on this already, and it shows promise. But what exactly will we be seeing? Suspension, wheels, and cosmetics are a given. But what about performance, bolt-ons, forced induction, swaps? Are these cars even going to be reliable??? I don't think anybody has even stopped and wondered, will they be plagued with problems, recalls?

So that's why I figured I'd start a thread like this, pretty much to serve the purpose of discussing modifications and ideas, what might work, what might not.

My opinion: Bolt-ons galore for the first few years, no swaps yet. The car should work well hopefully and sell well also. The car is incredibly advanced in terms of electronics for someone to swap something like a K in there. How is anybody going to get all the fancy gauges and dash instrumentation to work in conjunction with something like a K series? That's a huge issue, unless you gut the car of it's powertrain and wiring to swap the K in with custom wiring and aftermarket gauges. Who has the guts to take apart a completely new car in order to do that? Let's see it happen!
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Old 09-13-2010, 11:11 AM
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Default Re: The CR-Z modifications thread. Theories, ideas, and discussion.

i think installing a K-series into it and getting rid of the IMA would free up[ some weight and add some power. the bay should have enough room for one, if you relocate the battery and move the radiator up a little. then add a kpro, as well as suspension and more weight reduction. that's my idea of a sick *** cr-z
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Old 09-13-2010, 11:42 AM
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Default Re: The CR-Z modifications thread. Theories, ideas, and discussion.

turn the battery voltage UP! LOL
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Old 09-13-2010, 03:15 PM
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Default Re: The CR-Z modifications thread. Theories, ideas, and discussion.

Originally Posted by Wasian538 View Post
i think installing a K-series into it and getting rid of the IMA would free up[ some weight and add some power. the bay should have enough room for one, if you relocate the battery and move the radiator up a little. then add a kpro, as well as suspension and more weight reduction. that's my idea of a sick *** cr-z
I think there's a lot more to it than that, I still think the entire powertrain and wiring would have to be gutted out of the car for a working K swap to make it's way into a CR-Z

Originally Posted by tmus View Post
turn the battery voltage UP! LOL
Thhat's kinda funny, but actually makes me wonder if there's any way to get more power out of the electrical side of things when it comes to these hybrids.
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Old 09-13-2010, 06:03 PM
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Default Re: The CR-Z modifications thread. Theories, ideas, and discussion.

installing a K would be pointless. buy a brand new sport hybrid for ~20K then get rid of what makes it, it. and spend more money on another engine? ....yeah sounds great.
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Old 09-13-2010, 06:37 PM
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Default Re: The CR-Z modifications thread. Theories, ideas, and discussion.

Honda is working with Bisimoto on modifications for the CR-Z. dont believe me?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQvo9hwZdUY

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdsFsPsD8l8

I heard Hondata has one that they are working on as well.

The future is NOW!
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Old 09-13-2010, 07:27 PM
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Default Re: The CR-Z modifications thread. Theories, ideas, and discussion.

The CR-Z has the L series 1.5liter. Torque biased low rev engines, moreso in Asia where they sell with the CVT versions. The Fit is the only USDM with the 1.5liter while the Civic hybrid and the Insight use the 1.35liter. The Fit aftermarket is a couple turbo/superchargers(max daily boost is around 0.8-0.9 bar on stock internal with 10.4:1 Compression ratio on Vtec versions), a few lower compression pistons, some chrome stuff, suspension. Not alot. If the CR-Z brings the aftermarket they'll probably be swapping stuff. If Hondata builds a tunerbox for the L15 they will probably be happy campers.

And although the Fit freaks probably think their hatchback looks better, the CR-Z looks a lot better IMHO. But don't say that to the Fit freaks .
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Old 09-13-2010, 07:34 PM
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Default Re: The CR-Z modifications thread. Theories, ideas, and discussion.

Here are a couple of Japanese modified CR-Z's racing and a stock CR-Z racing the drift king.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeICaOu-WRw

This is the 1st video I have ever seen of CR-Z's racing. They look pretty good. Just don't expect record beating lap times.

I also heard that someone is making a supercharger for the CR-Z. Can't remember who.

OH, NOW I REMEMBER! HKS is working on a supercharger for the CR-Z.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQydT529Nfc

for more info and specs go here:
HKS Working On Supercharger

Last edited by Bucc-i; 09-13-2010 at 07:45 PM. Reason: just remembered who...
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Old 09-13-2010, 11:35 PM
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Default Re: The CR-Z modifications thread. Theories, ideas, and discussion.

Originally Posted by J_Marc View Post
My opinion: Bolt-ons galore for the first few years, no swaps yet. The car should work well hopefully and sell well also. The car is incredibly advanced in terms of electronics for someone to swap something like a K in there. How is anybody going to get all the fancy gauges and dash instrumentation to work in conjunction with something like a K series? That's a huge issue, unless you gut the car of it's powertrain and wiring to swap the K in with custom wiring and aftermarket gauges. Who has the guts to take apart a completely new car in order to do that? Let's see it happen!
wait wait wait.... why would you wanna swap a K-series into the CR-Z, that defeats the whole purpose, if you wanna do a K-series swap buy a crx, civic, or integra and have your fun there...i don't know if i'm the only one that feels this way, but if i'm buying a CR-Z (which I am) and i'm planning on moding it, I wanna work with it's current system....i mean thats part of the challenge right? having a 500 Hp car that gets 40 MPG's... what i'm saying is simple if you bought a hybrid, keep it a hybrid.

Lets work with what we've got, a small 1.5 Liter engine AND an electric motor....the 1.5L engine is easy, but I have no experience with electrical motors, I think we also need to look into how we can generate more power from that... any hackers in the house? lol
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Old 09-14-2010, 01:23 PM
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Default Re: The CR-Z modifications thread. Theories, ideas, and discussion.

Originally Posted by J_Marc View Post
Thhat's kinda funny, but actually makes me wonder if there's any way to get more power out of the electrical side of things when it comes to these hybrids.
Increased power out of an electric motor only involves adding more windings to the internal coil. Doing so would increase power draw (amps, not voltage), and probably require reprogramming the computer since it controls / balances the throttle plate and electric motor together for power delivery. This assumes the battery system is capable of supplying additional power as is, otherwise additional mods would be needed.

On the flip side, a more powerful electric motor could also provide more regenerative braking, assuming that the current one is maxed out under hard braking and assuming the battery could handle a faster charge.

Or at least, that is what I gathered from my wife the last time I said "I don't want a hybrid, I can't mod one". Never try an argue with a mechanical engineer about what you can and can't do to a car...
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Old 09-14-2010, 02:05 PM
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Default Re: The CR-Z modifications thread. Theories, ideas, and discussion.

To increase the power for the electric motor you either draw more amps and run high Current(C) ratings which would stress the battery pack or you install a larger pack. Assuming the batteries are high current already.

As an eg for upgrading the (Electric) Motor side of the car: EV components sells lithium phosphate packs for $44 for a 3 volt(nominal) with 40 amps at 1 hour (C) Current. They can maintain 200amps continuously or burst 2x or pulse 3 times that amperage. The CR-Z uses a 108volt(as an eg) pack and with 36 LiFePo cells it could generate 27.5HP continuous, burst 55HP, or pulse 80HP @95% Efficiency. All with 5x the capacity. The Motor would need to be reworked and the cells alone would cost $1500. It would take some work to convert the pack as the cells are much bigger than the D cells used in the IMA system and the voltage range is little bit different. It would add about 70lbs to the appox 50lb used by the NIMH pack. But considering they increase the HP by a good margin, the power to weight ratio is still much better than before.

And since that 27.5HP is at 2krpm that's 72 ft-lbs + the 80 something ft-lbs from the ICE for 150ft-lbs at 2k rpm. It's a lot more electrical engineering than mechanical though.
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Old 09-14-2010, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by boarding2008 View Post
installing a K would be pointless. buy a brand new sport hybrid for ~20K then get rid of what makes it, it. and spend more money on another engine? ....yeah sounds great.
I agree 100%. The reason I brought it up is because it's been suggested in almost every thread about the CR-Z so far it seems. It's expensive right now, but I still suspect someone will try, some people and/or shops have money to throw around for that idea. Besides that, this thread isn't just about right now. What'll we be seing in a few years?



Originally Posted by Bucc-i View Post
Honda is working with Bisimoto on modifications for the CR-Z. dont believe me?

I heard Hondata has one that they are working on as well.

The future is NOW!
I've seen the Bisimoto thread, I'm looking forward to the progress. They're some of the first to step up and develop stuff for the car, props to them!

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar View Post
The CR-Z has the L series 1.5liter. Torque biased low rev engines, moreso in Asia where they sell with the CVT versions. The Fit is the only USDM with the 1.5liter while the Civic hybrid and the Insight use the 1.35liter. The Fit aftermarket is a couple turbo/superchargers(max daily boost is around 0.8-0.9 bar on stock internal with 10.4:1 Compression ratio on Vtec versions), a few lower compression pistons, some chrome stuff, suspension. Not alot. If the CR-Z brings the aftermarket they'll probably be swapping stuff. If Hondata builds a tunerbox for the L15 they will probably be happy campers.

And although the Fit freaks probably think their hatchback looks better, the CR-Z looks a lot better IMHO. But don't say that to the Fit freaks .
The Fit shares some stuff with the CR-Z, but how much of it? It would be great to see something to tune the L15.

Originally Posted by PearlBlueType-S View Post
wait wait wait.... why would you wanna swap a K-series into the CR-Z, that defeats the whole purpose, if you wanna do a K-series swap buy a crx, civic, or integra and have your fun there...i don't know if i'm the only one that feels this way, but if i'm buying a CR-Z (which I am) and i'm planning on moding it, I wanna work with it's current system....i mean thats part of the challenge right? having a 500 Hp car that gets 40 MPG's... what i'm saying is simple if you bought a hybrid, keep it a hybrid.

Lets work with what we've got, a small 1.5 Liter engine AND an electric motor....the 1.5L engine is easy, but I have no experience with electrical motors, I think we also need to look into how we can generate more power from that... any hackers in the house? lol
Never said I would want to swap a K in one, I've got a CR-X, and I don't even want a K for that! I'd also rather see what's possible with what the car already has, but some people are set on wanting to tear that out I'm sure. If the stock powertrain has potential someone will find that potential, if the chassis can be used for a swap someone will use it for that swap too.


Anyways, I'm glad this thread is going somewhere!
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Old 09-14-2010, 02:42 PM
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Default Re: The CR-Z modifications thread. Theories, ideas, and discussion.

some one needs to prototype new rear trailing arms.... that single axle rearend is the suck
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Old 09-14-2010, 02:46 PM
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Default Re: The CR-Z modifications thread. Theories, ideas, and discussion.

Originally Posted by TunerN00b View Post
Increased power out of an electric motor only involves adding more windings to the internal coil. Doing so would increase power draw (amps, not voltage), and probably require reprogramming the computer since it controls / balances the throttle plate and electric motor together for power delivery. This assumes the battery system is capable of supplying additional power as is, otherwise additional mods would be needed.

On the flip side, a more powerful electric motor could also provide more regenerative braking, assuming that the current one is maxed out under hard braking and assuming the battery could handle a faster charge.

Or at least, that is what I gathered from my wife the last time I said "I don't want a hybrid, I can't mod one". Never try an argue with a mechanical engineer about what you can and can't do to a car...
See, that's what I'm wondering, but it sounds like it's definitely an engineers job to make it work. If it's possible to increase the power output of the electrical system, how is that going to work in conjunction with the combustion motor and the transmission's part of the equation? I'd seem to think there needs to be some sort of synchronization there.

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar View Post
To increase the power for the electric motor you either draw more amps and run high Current(C) ratings which would stress the battery pack or you install a larger pack. Assuming the batteries are high current already.

As an eg for upgrading the (Electric) Motor side of the car: EV components sells lithium phosphate packs for $44 for a 3 volt(nominal) with 40 amps at 1 hour (C) Current. They can maintain 200amps continuously or burst 2x or pulse 3 times that amperage. The CR-Z uses a 108volt(as an eg) pack and with 36 LiFePo cells it could generate 27.5HP continuous, burst 55HP, or pulse 80HP @95% Efficiency. All with 5x the capacity. The Motor would need to be reworked and the cells alone would cost $1500. It would take some work to convert the pack as the cells are much bigger than the D cells used in the IMA system and the voltage range is little bit different. It would add about 70lbs to the appox 50lb used by the NIMH pack. But considering they increase the HP by a good margin, the power to weight ratio is still much better than before.

And since that 27.5HP is at 2krpm that's 72 ft-lbs + the 80 something ft-lbs from the ICE for 150ft-lbs at 2k rpm. It's a lot more electrical engineering than mechanical though.
It seems like power could be increase by a lot, but how much work would it take to get the electronics to understand and make use of the upgrade in battery power? And how reliable would that turn out?
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Old 09-14-2010, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by MSchu View Post
some one needs to prototype new rear trailing arms.... that single axle rearend is the suck
Definitely agree with you on that, it's not the best setup when it comes to an all out race/competition car. I'd like to see for myself how it's setup, Honda must've made it that way for a reason whether it's from a ride comfort, cost, or space point of vue. They make cars that appeal to a greater public than the tuner crowd, that's for sure, it's up to the enthusiasts to make what they want out of it.

It's not the best setup, but it's still useable. Doesn't the fit have a similar set up? What about the first gen CR-X? Those have both been put to good use on the track.
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Old 09-14-2010, 03:01 PM
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Default Re: The CR-Z modifications thread. Theories, ideas, and discussion.

Originally Posted by J_Marc View Post
Never said I would want to swap a K in one, I've got a CR-X, and I don't even want a K for that! I'd also rather see what's possible with what the car already has, but some people are set on wanting to tear that out I'm sure. If the stock powertrain has potential someone will find that potential, if the chassis can be used for a swap someone will use it for that swap too.


Anyways, I'm glad this thread is going somewhere!
oh ok cool i see... my bad man, but whoever is thinking about the k-series swap that should go die...lol "lets go pay $20K for a brand new car so we can just use the shell, spend another $20k on the swap, and have one very expensive non-hybrid CR-Z" lollll come on the only time it would even make sense to swap a K-series into a CR-Z would be if I find a lemon or a theft recovery at an auctionhouse, and if i only paid max 2 grand for it....

anyway like J_Marc said, i like the input coming into this thread, keep it up!.... we got a lot of great info on how to increase power from the electrical motor... can't wait to see what the future holds for the hybrid tunning and racing genre..
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Old 09-14-2010, 03:03 PM
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Default Re: The CR-Z modifications thread. Theories, ideas, and discussion.

And to the people who think the K swap is pointless, there is one circumstance I can think of that would make it worthwhile, which is if you live in California. Hybrid vehicles are not subjected to smog checks.

K swap a Civic, try and get the car through a ref, still have to smog it every 2 years.
K swap an Insight / CR-Z, mod to your hearts content...
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Old 09-14-2010, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by TunerN00b View Post
And to the people who think the K swap is pointless, there is one circumstance I can think of that would make it worthwhile, which is if you live in California. Hybrid vehicles are not subjected to smog checks.

K swap a Civic, try and get the car through a ref, still have to smog it every 2 years.
K swap an Insight / CR-Z, mod to your hearts content...
Poor Californians . I used to live in Cali, true story.
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Old 09-14-2010, 04:54 PM
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Default Re: The CR-Z modifications thread. Theories, ideas, and discussion.

Originally Posted by TunerN00b View Post
And to the people who think the K swap is pointless, there is one circumstance I can think of that would make it worthwhile, which is if you live in California. Hybrid vehicles are not subjected to smog checks.

K swap a Civic, try and get the car through a ref, still have to smog it every 2 years.
K swap an Insight / CR-Z, mod to your hearts content...
^^very good point!

YES we all want to stuff a K series under the hood. most of us who have been doing this a while know..swap that single cam for a dual cam. sure u can boost a single cam and all that. but u dont get the kind of power you would get from a B or K motor with the same type of mods. so if u want to try to make the hybrid engine push out more power, have fun doing that. sounds expensive and i dont think you'll get much out of it. cus the rest of us are gonna put a K series under the hood and have PROVEN power that we know will put out big numbers. sure, the K dont get 40 mpgs, but that's not why we want a K motor in a CRZ. we want P O W E R and a light car. its the CRX all over again. going back to the roots of honda.

BTW...the HKS video looks really fake.
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Old 09-14-2010, 06:02 PM
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Default Re: The CR-Z modifications thread. Theories, ideas, and discussion.

Originally Posted by TunerN00b View Post
And to the people who think the K swap is pointless, there is one circumstance I can think of that would make it worthwhile, which is if you live in California. Hybrid vehicles are not subjected to smog checks.

K swap a Civic, try and get the car through a ref, still have to smog it every 2 years.
K swap an Insight / CR-Z, mod to your hearts content...
That's something else to think about, let's hope we see done!

Originally Posted by smoov_w4gon View Post
^^very good point!

YES we all want to stuff a K series under the hood. most of us who have been doing this a while know..swap that single cam for a dual cam. sure u can boost a single cam and all that. but u dont get the kind of power you would get from a B or K motor with the same type of mods. so if u want to try to make the hybrid engine push out more power, have fun doing that. sounds expensive and i dont think you'll get much out of it. cus the rest of us are gonna put a K series under the hood and have PROVEN power that we know will put out big numbers. sure, the K dont get 40 mpgs, but that's not why we want a K motor in a CRZ. we want P O W E R and a light car. its the CRX all over again. going back to the roots of honda.

BTW...the HKS video looks really fake.
Yeah, that HKS video is in fast forward. K swaps were done in Honda Fits within months of those cars being on the road if I recall, you still don't see much of them, but that'll come along. K swaps in CR-Zs must not be far off, especially for track cars. Although I don't think the average guy will be daily driving something like that for quite a while still. I wonder how one of those would weigh, fully gutted with a K swap, the shell of the car really isn't all that big.
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Old 09-14-2010, 06:21 PM
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Default Re: The CR-Z modifications thread. Theories, ideas, and discussion.

Originally Posted by TunerN00b View Post
And to the people who think the K swap is pointless, there is one circumstance I can think of that would make it worthwhile, which is if you live in California. Hybrid vehicles are not subjected to smog checks.

K swap a Civic, try and get the car through a ref, still have to smog it every 2 years.
K swap an Insight / CR-Z, mod to your hearts content...
It is a nice thought but that will take some time to find a nice affordable used CRZ to make this K-swap somewhat "affordable"... and I use that term loosely.

Maybe in 5 years or so until it becomes somewhat affordable.
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Old 09-15-2010, 01:16 AM
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Default Re: The CR-Z modifications thread. Theories, ideas, and discussion.

Originally Posted by TunerN00b View Post
And to the people who think the K swap is pointless, there is one circumstance I can think of that would make it worthwhile, which is if you live in California. Hybrid vehicles are not subjected to smog checks.

K swap a Civic, try and get the car through a ref, still have to smog it every 2 years.
K swap an Insight / CR-Z, mod to your hearts content...
so you want to spend $20k on a brand new cr-z, take it apart, then spend at least $10k on the K-swap alone (not calculating brakes, suspension, building the motor, and all that stuff) just so you can avoid a smog check every two years???....unless you **** money$$$ that doesn't make sense....i hope you were thinking to wait and buy one at an auction or something used...


Originally Posted by smoov_w4gon View Post
YES we all want to stuff a K series under the hood. most of us who have been doing this a while know..swap that single cam for a dual cam. sure u can boost a single cam and all that. but u dont get the kind of power you would get from a B or K motor with the same type of mods. so if u want to try to make the hybrid engine push out more power, have fun doing that. sounds expensive and i dont think you'll get much out of it. cus the rest of us are gonna put a K series under the hood and have PROVEN power that we know will put out big numbers. sure, the K dont get 40 mpgs, but that's not why we want a K motor in a CRZ. we want P O W E R and a light car. its the CRX all over again. going back to the roots of honda.
dude are you sure you’re in the right thread? you’re talking about proven power, and then roots of honda in the hybrid section lol....fact is if you want PROVEN POWER go buy a V8, if you want to follow the roots of honda all the way back to the crx days then your talking single cam again cuz thats what the crx had buddy a SINGLE CAM, and it rocked...still does. if you don't want to get 40 mpg's then leave this thread...i don't think you even know what the roots of Honda actually are.......here we work with what we got.



swapping a K-series is taking the easy way out, where's the challenge in that?
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Old 09-15-2010, 03:54 AM
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if i have my way, i will have three of these in the next 5 years.

1 k swapped time attacker
1 hybrid time attacker
1 daily driver cvt flushedtough, slammed, lipped the hell out.

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Old 09-15-2010, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by PearlBlueType-S View Post



dude are you sure you’re in the right thread?

if you don't want to get 40 mpg's then leave this thread...i don't think you even know what the roots of Honda actually are.......here we work with what we got.


swapping a K-series is taking the easy way out, where's the challenge in that?

He is in the right thread, if you go through it again, the thread is about ideas, theories, and opinions about what could be done with CR-Zs in the future. Whether it's working with what the car already has, swapping something, tuning the suspension or whatever....

The thread never really was about getting 40 mpg's, I don't think any enthusiast in this thread really cares about mpg that much, if that were the case we'd all be leaving this thread. If you want to talk about getting the most mpg's, do like I did and start a thread. As for the roots of Hondas being about working what we have, that's hardly true, some people did go that route, but there's been swaps since wayyyy back, and that goes for Hondas/imports/sport compacts in general.

As for swapping a K being the easy way out. It probably won't be easy and there will probably be plenty of challenges to be had to get it working. Buying bolt-ons and calling it a day would be the easy way out.
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Old 09-15-2010, 02:51 PM
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Default Re: The CR-Z modifications thread. Theories, ideas, and discussion.


^^he's right. its understood if you want to keep things stock and save money with the mpg advantage, but not all of us think with money in mind.

we get a thrill out of building a custom machine, and when were done putting our foot to the floor and feeling our work come to our expectations. if thats not being enthusiastic about hondas, i dunno what is.
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