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That’s a great question. The speedo is disconnected. The whole cluster is a cluster duck. The fuel level is the only thing reading. Tach is 1-1500rpm high due it being a 3cyl tach. The coolant temp reads the same no matter what. The speedo I plan on figuring out with a signal converter but haven’t gotten around to it. I may end up using a different cluster.
On a positive note I’m getting the hang of driving it. On my second trip to the track I was able to get it down to an 11.3 @ 137. That is on pump gas and a peak of 15psi which is about 460whp. That’s not going wot till 3gear. I’m having issues with the vss and I hurt the ecu so I need to resolve that and get the boost by gear operational. I would like a 10sec pass on these dot bias ply tires and pump gas. I do plan on turning it up on slicks and e85 eventually.
I am running an 06 S2000 cluster in mine. Sorted out how the temp and warning lights work. It is a serial interface that requires you have something like an arduino to take the analog and digital inputs and convert them to serial.
Only thing I don't like about the s2000 cluster is the fuel gauge has no smoothing or averaging so the fuel level will swing wildly around corners or when braking or accelerating. It is correct and the senders have the same resistance values just no smoothing.
Thanks for the spacer pics, Ryan. I'm considering stock struts as you've done but swap the stock springs for modified Corolla rears to aid in suspending the extra weight of the K. JulianEdgar on IC.net detailed the change bc of the inherent design flaw of the minimal travel built into the front with even a stock engine.
I also saw on another post you retrofitted projectors with HIDs into the factory headlight. Is it a worthwhile setup? A similar method was cheap eBay projector fitted to H1 style HIDs from Amazon, all for roughly $100. Didn't know if your kit was complete.
I also saw on another post you retrofitted projectors with HIDs into the factory headlight. Is it a worthwhile setup?
Oh hell yes!
About that suspension. I have the Koni struts and GC coil overs installed. Meh.... 475lbs/in is probably too stiff for a street car. I think a softer spring on the Koni would yield more grip and a better ride.
I did notice the front suspension has at least 9" of travel but it is all in droop. I have my ride height set roughly to stock to keep the lower arms just below parallel. McPherson strut suspension blows *** compared to the EG double a arm. And that torsion beam rear gets sooo upset about uneven road surfaces. Polishing a turd....
Think I might put the stock springs on the more heavily dampened Koni strut and see how that goes. Not happy with my current solution. If the stiffness actually produced results I would be okay with it. Handling is not exactly confidence inspiring and it rides like ****.
My base line for comparison is an EG hatch on H&R springs, Tokico Illuminas, sway bars, and poly bushings. Stiff but doesn't beat the hell out of you AND it sticks like **** to a wool blanket.
Did your HIDs come in a kit or did you piece it together?
Oh, so you got the 50mm Koni strut to fit? Anything special to make that happen? The more I research the more I lean towards keeping the stock Insight strut body, run a GC spring, Koni damper insert, and spacers sandwiched K knuckle and delete the front bar. No upset geometry. In a stock engine scenario, the consensus is raise the front an inch and firm the spring to 150# to stay off the stops. With the added weight of the K24 (and without doing the math yet on frequencies) a spring in the neighborhood of 200# should ride better than the super stiff setup you have for daily use. More research is needed before I start buying parts. GAZ shocks out back, spring to be determined (Matiz/Daewoo/Scotts on IC.net).
I used an HID kit, the Morimoto Mini D2S 4.0 with a 50watt ballast and a 4500k D2S bulb. This has a built in high beam as well unlike the H1 projectors on ebay. Also uses a real HID bulb socket.
To make the Koni strut insert work you need to have a sleeve machined to make the tip of the Civic strut similar to the Insight strut. I would bet if you ordered a GC kit for a Civic you would get the correct sleeve. I then reused the Insight top hat so no modifications to the car required.
Yes, 475 is far too stiff, would probably work on a steel body car that is 1000lbs heavier. Going to require some math and thinking to figure out what spring I would need to order. The GC spring for the Insight is a custom length and spring rate. Would need a longer and softer spring. The good news is, it is a standard 2.5" ID spring. The GC spring spec is 475lbs 5.5" length 2.5" ID.
As for the GAZ shocks, they work. I do have a major concern about the longevity. The purple condom thing has already rubbed all the zinc plating off the shock body. Should turn into a nasty rust here soon. Poor design. Probably should have done the Koni shock that fits the old Porsche 934? 943? Anyway they make a strut that would fit and that is adjustable.
With a 475lb/in spring that will sag 1.136" with the weight of the car.
Change that to a 300lb/in spring and the sag is 1.8".
That would actually work out really well. The 475lb spring is 5.5" and an Eibach standard spring is 6". So that extra 0.5" of free length would be consumed by the added sag of the softer spring.
Fully extended strut I have 8" minimum and 9" maximum between spring seats depending on where the adjustment collar is set. Currently have the ride height in the front set as high as it will go so 8" between seats. And to clearify I cut the spring seats off of the Insight struts and welded on the collar seat that came with the GC kit about 3/4" lower than the factory location.
Current spring is 5.5" unloaded and about 4.75" loaded. I hate that the spring is free to flop around when unloaded.
Looking at going to the 6" 300lb/in spring. That still leaves me 2-3" of free length to fill. Plan is to throw in a 3" 50lb/in tender spring to take up the extra unloaded space.
From the previous rough math the 300lb/in spring will be at 4.2" loaded plus the block height of the tender at 0.825" for a total loaded spring height of 5.025". I can easily lower the spring perch to accommodate the additional 0.25" spring length.
Reasoning on the 300lbs/in spring is the EG hatch I have is running a 340lb/in spring in the front and that rides pretty well while not being too stiff. Insight is overall a lighter car and 300lb/in is a stock rate. The tender springs should also make the initial travel VERY soft but also push the tire into holes that the soft spring rate and compression damping can help absorb before hitting the main spring with full force.
I think I just sold myself on some new springs.
I will send some updates when the springs are installed.
Oh but now I see they have a 126lb/in tender spring. Block is at 253lbs vs 130lbs. That would almost make that an active spring. Slightly taller block height at 1.02". Could still adjust that extra length out. Tough call....
If free droop distance is a nuisance then why cut/weld the lower perch 3/4" lower? Only curious.
Did some math research myself. Average car with manual trans is ~1847lbs. Haven't nailed down a definite stock engine + trans weight but the consensus has been less than 200lbs. A K24 + trans tips around 415lbs. for an increase of 215. Move the 40lb 12 volt battery to the back where the hybrid pack used to be (95lb) for a net increase of 185lbs in the front and a decrease of 55lbs in the rear. I still have to plug the new numbers into a frequency equation that I barely understand but that should give me a better handle on what spring rate to use for spirited daily driving. I got the "dirty nasty low" kidney destroyer phase out of my system in my ignorant, younger days and found it intolerable for anyone who's old enough to have a mortgage. Looking for pleasant now.
Post pics of your fix. That you convinced yourself is hilarious.
If free droop distance is a nuisance then why cut/weld the lower perch 3/4" lower? Only curious.
Did some math research myself. Average car with manual trans is ~1847lbs. Haven't nailed down a definite stock engine + trans weight but the consensus has been less than 200lbs. A K24 + trans tips around 415lbs. for an increase of 215. Move the 40lb 12 volt battery to the back where the hybrid pack used to be (95lb) for a net increase of 185lbs in the front and a decrease of 55lbs in the rear. I still have to plug the new numbers into a frequency equation that I barely understand but that should give me a better handle on what spring rate to use for spirited daily driving. I got the "dirty nasty low" kidney destroyer phase out of my system in my ignorant, younger days and found it intolerable for anyone who's old enough to have a mortgage. Looking for pleasant now.
Post pics of your fix. That you convinced yourself is hilarious.
3/4" lower because with the adjustment collar just sitting on the welds of the factory spring seat and the collar adjusted as low as possible the car still sat really high in the front. And I figured I would be going to a helper spring that would need more overall length at some point. May still need to cut that collar seat off and lower it some more.
Decided on the 126lb/in helper and 300lb/in main. Before the helper goes into block the effective spring rate will be ~89lb/in. (126x300)/(126+300)=~89
I have an insight engine complete with ima and trans sitting in my garage. It is well over 200lbs. Now I need to find a scale because I am super curious.
Fully dressed Insight engine with AC compressor, intake manifold, exhaust manifold, wire harness, IMA harness, IMA motor, manual transmission without fluids.
Any guesses?
282lbs
That would make a K24 swap just about 26lbs heavier.
I would like to know what Honda is quoting when they say the Insight engine is 124lbs. Must be a long block.
That 413lbs included half shafts. Let me go get a weight on the Insight shafts.
The pair of Insight shafts weigh in at 19lbs.
So the difference between stock and K24 swap is now just 7lbs. A gallon of fuel.
I should figure out the weight on the front knuckle and brake assembly. I know the steel unit off the Civic was a fair bit heavier than the mostly aluminum Insight stuff.
I have solved the checksum on the TSX CAN bus. I can now write any data I want!
Already figured out what data says the VSA is still functional and happy. Also have the cruise control commands. Won't be long now and I will have fully functional cruise control. Cruise won't work if the ECU thinks the VSA is not working.
That would also mean I can now sort out what CAN message is the request for AC. I will have AC that does a proper idle up and release the compressor clutch when I stomp on the loud pedal.
These last few refinements will really be icing on the cake.
Nice work on finding the elusive weights. Question though, your car weighs 471 pounds more than a stock 5-speed Insight (1847). Where does the extra 25% come from if the net is similar?
Awesome find on the CAN bus. I was hoping to run cruise (and AC) with this car bc otherwise I'd just roll Accord A4 and ditch drive by wire quirks. If I want the power back I could start with cams.
Let's assume Honda's weight is for a non-AC car and dry. It wasn't until just recently Honda motorcycle started to list read to ride weights.
+80 for fuel
+8 for engine and transmission oil
+8 for coolant
+1 for brake and clutch fluid
+5 floor mats
+30 for AC components
Then add in supporting K series parts
Iron Civic knuckles
Iron Civic brake calipers
Bigger Civic brake rotors
Bigger Civic Hybrid wheels
195/50-15 performance tires
Bigger exhaust
Twice as much volume in fluids
4 extra lug studs and nuts
Wheel adapters in the rear
Really starts to add up fast
I would love to throw a stock Insight on my scales if there is a volunteer in the PNW.
So I made a error in my original weighing. Appears I had bound up a load cell or two by driving onto the scales. The are "drive on" but that flips one edge up and then slams it down and I think that caused some binding. Tonight I drove up on wood blocks to be level with the scales and then rolled onto the scales without disturbing them. I then bounced each corner of the car a couple of times to settle any binding.
New number is 2110 with a half tank of fuel. I was able to repeat that number 4 times rolling on and off. Scales were zero every time I rolled off and then zeroed out before rolling back on.
I repeated the new methodology with another car and got repeatable numbers.
So the new 2110 is a much more feasible number. Weight balance changed by a percent it is now 63/37 but still parked nose down on an incline. Left to right is 20lbs light on the drivers side with me in it. Again not on a level surface so those numbers are rough.
Final number might change again, Not sure the small contact points for the load cells like exposed aggregate concrete. Still feel like there might be some binding.
Ah, glad you found the error. The most published curb weight I've seen for manual trans and AC is 1,878# putting the gain at 232# or 12.3%. That's reasonable given the beefier replacements.
As for the 124# engine quote, I dug into Car and Driver's archive and found that number. Like you said, must mean core components.
You'll have to elaborate on the CAN bus discovery. I know more Spanish than CAN bus and I don't know much Spanish.
Currently adapting HIDs to my daily before I go dig in junkyards for EM2 front suspension and an Accord 5-sp, flywheel, clutch, cables.
02-02-2018, 06:31 AM
Re: Offical k20/k24 swaped insights
