When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Yup reused the aluminum mounts with rubber inserts from the Insight and made steel brackets to the engine and trans.
Now I am not so sure how the AC signaling works on the TSX. The ETM says "the climate control unit grounds the AC ON input of the ECM/PCM through the muliplex integrated control system and the AC pressure switch"
Multiplex unit being the underhood fuse box.
However there is no direct link between Multiplex and ECU AND there is no "AC ON" input on the ECU. So that has to be a typo in the ETM.
The HVAC control is on the B-CAN network and only on B-CAN. ECU is on F-CAN and only on F-CAN.
The gauge cluster is the only thing on both B-CAN and F-CAN. I did find this nugget in the ETM, "To allow both systems to share information the gauge control module translates information from B-CAN to F-CAN and from F-CAN to B-CAN and operates on both networks."
So...... I am thinking the signalling looks more like this:
HVAC ----(B-CAN)----> Gauges ----(F-CAN)----> ECU ----(ground)----> AC Clutch Relay
HVAC unit sends a signal out on B-CAN to request AC on, The gauge cluster picks that signal up and routes it to F-CAN, The ECU hears the AC ON request and then grounds the control side of the AC clutch relay.
The good news, I have the HVAC unit and gauge cluster and a couple of ECUs. The bad news not enough time to probe them to see what is going on and program an Arduino to send the F-CAN message when a pin is grounded by the Insight's HVAC unit.
I had already converted over to the 2006 Insight fuel pump and fuel line to get a returnless setup. After running it for 10k miles and noticing the fuel trims were always +12-16% I checked the fuel pressure specs. The TSX pump puts out ~%12 more fuel pressure than the Insight pumps.
I had a TSX pump so I decided to swap it in. It is nearly a direct drop in replacement.
Here is the 2006 Insight pump and fuel line. The yellow paint on the tank is for alignment with the indicator on the pump cover.
Here are the two pumps side by side. The TSX pump is on the right. Fuel outlets are clocked differently but the sending unit floats are oriented the same.
This is the TSX pump installed. Turns out the fuel line is plenty flexible and the clocking of the outlet does not matter too much. The pump is still aligned with the tank.
Now for the parts that are not quite drop in and go. The quick release fuel clips are slightly different. The TSX clip has too wide of retainers to fit in the Insight fuel line. I swapped the clip but you could probably trim down the sides of the TSX clip. TSX clip is on the right.
And the TSX sending unit operates at a different resistance so the resistor chip needs to be swapped. Thankfully they are identical in shape and function so it is just a matter of unclipping and putting it back. The one on the right is the Insight chip.
Here is what it looks like installed.
Initial testing shows fuel trims are now -/+2% and the fuel gauge works!
Your mount solution seems the best given my modest skills and for simplicity's sake. I can fill the gaps in the rubber with a similar material to help prevent twist while hopefully keeping vibrations to a tolerable level.
The AC conundrum sounds convoluted! Why did engineers take this route? Would asking an Acura tech at the dealership or Acura Forum help shed light on where to look further? "My AC went out but all components are there. It appears to be a wiring/signal issue. How does the ECU receive signal to idle up?"
Kudos on the fuel pump fix. I regretfully was unable to snag the pump from my donor. It was 4am and I wanted to get the hell out of there after 12hrs from pulling the engine. BTW, why didn't you make a build thread!? Lol.
I believe the choice to go to CAN bus on the AC was for weight reduction, fewer wires to do the same job. Or some enginerds wet dream, whatever.
I highly doubt the average dealership tech dives that deep into the whys and hows. I know there are a couple techs out there that could sort it out but probably won't know off the top of their head.
Nah no build thread. Would rather contribute to the the big K swap thread and help hammer out the little details that make a good street car. The physical swap is easy, it is all the integration that is a challenge.
Any particular reason you went 2006 returnless to begin with? Mine is 2001 and has a return line. Kind of irrelevant as corrosion will force me to replace ALL fuel and brake hard lines once the engine is out and tank dropped.
The TSX is returnless as are all k series I think. I wanted a clean OEM solution and certain versions of the Insight offered one.
The Insights with a return don't have a positive fuel line retention and that bothered me. A spring style hose clamp on the high pressure side was not appealing. There was no good way to adapt from hose barb to push connect fitting.
Also worth noting, these cars don't have fuel filters. Just the sock on the pump pickup and the strainers on the injector inlets inlet.
I'll probably stay stock return for now, I've got enough to change on this chassis as is and most EG/EK swaps do ok staying with stock return.
Do you have any pictures of your mount setup? My chassis rubber looks decent for the age so I may be going your same route with custom engine side mated to stock chassis. Currently stripping the front end of exterior panels.
Did you ever drive your Insight as a slow stock daily or buy it with the intent to swap? Just curious.
I daily drive it, about 150 miles a day. I drive it reasonably but certainly use the added power to pass things on the maintain highways. I bought it with the intent to just drive it, did not have an IMA battery. But turns out 60hp and long gears are not for me, could not stand driving it after driving it for 6 months.
There is no return on a K series unless you go to an aftermarket fuel rail. Could just cap the return I guess? Hacking a fuel system together was not for me, has to be a dead reliable daily.
I probably have pictures of my mounts. I am not 100% satisfied with them yet so I have not posted pictures. They work but they are not refined yet.
EDIT! I misspoke, you can't just dead head the Insight's return fuel pump and cap the return. There is no fuel pressure regulator in the fuel pump. You would have to put a pressure regulator on the firewall and dead head off of that. That was why I went to the 2006 Insight pump, it is a returnless style with the regulator build into the pump assembly.
Last edited by Ryanthegreat1; 10-09-2017 at 06:50 AM.
Correct, the consensus I've found has been to install the FPR after the rail if possible. Using a stock K rail would put it before the rail and a return line hooked up to the bottom outlet port of the FPR. Use appropriate clamps (not worm/gear) that can cut into the rubber and leak. Ideally, your setup is best. TSX pump, single feed line to the rail. Done. Other than the pump and eliminating the return line do I need anything else? That would be one less hard line to replace for me.
Wow, that's a lot of driving. If most of it is highway would the Accord K24 have been a better fit from a cost perspective? Slightly better mpg and it runs on 87 octane? You wouldn't miss the extra 40hp on the highway. Then again you've got cruise with your DBW. Hmm...pros and cons.
I would miss the 40hp! Need a bit more power I think. 2nd gear is a dead hook so not at the limit of the tire yet.
Plus VTEC is the song of my people! I would be sad to go through all the trouble and not have that sweet intake sound at full honk.
Would still need some fuel line between where the Insight hard line ends and the K's fuel rail. I used some push connect fittings for -6 AN hose. I think the Insight side is 1/4" and the K's side is 5/16"
Insight strut is 50mm, Koni makes a 50mm insert for the Civic strut. Overall dimensions are about the same. Might see about fitting the Koni insert in the Insight strut body. Then no need to deal with the camber issue the Civic/RSX strut produces.
This would be a great upgrade for stock Insights. Swapped ones would need a stiffer spring to cope with the extra weight of the K, not sure what is a direct fit besides the GC coilover sleeves. How would the stock strut mate to an EM2/EP3 spindle?
Well I have 50mm Koni yellows on order. Installed GAZ rear shocks last night, amazing difference. Not sure if I need stiffer springs in the rear, with the IMA stuff all removed from the rear I have 3"+ to the bump stops. Does not look like I am getting into them frequently.
Probably order of the GC spring kit next.
I used some 16ga steel spacers cut out on the plasma table. Drilled the Insight strut to the larger bolt diameter and used Odyssey knuckle bolts.
My DD Insight came with Daewoo Matiz rear springs, vast improvement over stock but I still have the IMA battery. Scott on IC.net sells a similar kit at a reasonable cost.
Do you have a pic of your front strut setup with the spacers and Odyssey hardware? Sorry, I'm visual.
Yet to install the Koni. They are a bit different but not unusable. The 55mm Civic and Insight strut use a larger shaft diameter than the 50mm or Koni strut. The Ground Control coil over uses the shaft diameter to center the top hat and thrust bearing. Just need to take some measurements and make a sleeve.
I do have the GC springs installed on the stock strut and GAZ shocks. Stock struts are no where near up to the task of damping the front springs. Gotta love hitting every bump twice. Once for the initial bump and again as the springs over rebound and then the car slams back down. Ricer life!
Took some pictures of my strut to knuckle spacers and bolts.
Ive been reading this thread for a long time and am in the process of k swapping my Citrus yellow Insight. Dont have much spare time so it might take a while. I did follow most of your advices but came up with two things I did different:
I went with a returnless fuel system. I used a 2003 CVT pump and used a 2005-2006 Rsx fuel regulator and pump to have the right spec because as Ryanthegreat wrote the insight pump doesnt flow enough. 2002-2004 RSX pump doesnt work because the fuel regulator does not fit.
Here is the 2002-2004 fuel regulator that does not fit
Now the shifter. I used an Acura Cl Type S 2003 shift box. It is 6 speed, bolt right in the car and use the same shift cable end as the RSX.
On the left the Cl Type S shifter and on the right the Insight shifter.
Nice find on the shifter box! That is great info for someone going with the RSX shift pattern.
I used the 2004 TSX shifter box and transmission. 3 out of 4 bolt holes lined up. I had to cut the right rear corner off the box to make it fit under the center console trim.
Pro tip the RSX shift linkage does not fit on a TSX transmission. Bought all the parts to make it happen and RSX shift cables then found out it won't work. Doh!
Ryanthegreat1 i read you installed the 2006 fuel line with quick fitting. What is your Insight model year? The shape doesnt look the same compare to 2000-2005 lines. The fuel tank shape is also different in 2006. Does everything fit well?
Ryanthegreat1 i read you installed the 2006 fuel line with quick fitting. What is your Insight model year? The shape doesnt look the same compare to 2000-2005 lines. The fuel tank shape is also different in 2006. Does everything fit well?
Chassis and tank are MT 2000. Fuel line is a MT 2006. Also used the fuel line firewall mount from a MT 2006. The mount is very different. Fuel line fits great, snapped into all the holders along the bottom.
I think the EVAP system is different on the 2006 so the tank got reshaped. I thought the CVT equipped cars were all return less as well after 2002(?).
Chassis and tank are MT 2000. Fuel line is a MT 2006. Also used the fuel line firewall mount from a MT 2006. The mount is very different. Fuel line fits great, snapped into all the holders along the bottom.
I think the EVAP system is different on the 2006 so the tank got reshaped. I thought the CVT equipped cars were all return less as well after 2002(?).
Yes the evap system is different in 2006, so is the fuel tank and the hose. It as a quick plug fitting on the firewall end. MT and CVT have the same returnless system.
2002-2005 CVT are returnless and the firewall end need a clamp to secure the hose.
2000-2005 MT and CVT all have the same tank and EVAP system.
So ill do exactly the same as you did because I want a clean install and the quick plug fitting, except ill be using my moded 2003 CVT fuel pump using the RSX pump and fuel regulator.
Yes the 2006 fuel line is a push connect on the engine side. Off the top of my head it was a 1/4" Russell 641303 fitting. The K fuel rail I think is a 5/16" Russell 611273, this one was a 90 degree bend.
10-05-2017, 08:40 PM
Re: Offical k20/k24 swaped insights
