SupremeTaco

Hey all... So it's kind of a long story as to where all of this has gone through, but to sum it all up:

at 2k miles I felt a very slight pulsing as i was coming to a stop... so I took the car in to have the rotors turned thinking maybe they came that way (it's possible, and occasionally happens). That fixed it.

At 8k miles, I felt it again... a bit stronger, and took it back in. They told me I don't know how to drive and that the ONLY reason rotors warp is from misuse... they turned them again after basically yelling at me for being a dumb driver, but they turned them again to shut me up.

Again at 15k miles I had to take it back in for the same reason... this time they said "look, rotors aren't covered any under kind of warranty, because people screw them up and it's not our fault so we don't have to fix them."

So I've been driving on crappy brakes that vibrate pretty badly (now I have 36k miles on my car, and I just deal with the uncomfortable stop. When I finish paying off the car this month, I'll swap out my rotors/pads)...

I drive the regular manual 2007 Fit... I downshift 95% of the time I'm stopping, I don't drive it very hard. I never hold on the brakes going down hills unless i NEED to, which is VERY rare... I've put many many miles on a few other cars (including an older civic) and never had ANY brake problems...

Has anybody else had any sort of issues with their brakes??????

TunerN00b

Did you bed the brakes properly?

From what I have seen (and I am NOT a brake mechanic), but 99% of the time when people have "warped rotors" they aren't warped at all, they have uneven brake pad deposits in them.

Heck, I ruined a set of rotors by failing to bed the pads properly, set down uneven deposits, and had brake pedal pulses until I replaced the rotors. I only replaced them, because I was quoted $15 to turn a rotor, and Autozone carried Integra rotors for $16 each (at the time, they're more now). New rotors, bedded the same pads properly, and haven't had issues in 2 years.

Stoptech has a nice quick answer on bedding brake pads here:
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/faqs.shtml#7

And a longer article on "warped" rotors here:
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_i...shtml

SupremeTaco

Ah, an intelligent response! Thanks I'll definitely be sure to do things properly when I get my new brakes. Any suggestions as to what I should get that'll be a bit better than the stock brakes? I'm pretty much figuring that as I replace any part in my car I'll just put something a bit nicer to kinda improve on my car over time...
Thanks again

TunerN00b

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SupremeTaco &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ah, an intelligent response! Thanks I'll definitely be sure to do things properly when I get my new brakes. Any suggestions as to what I should get that'll be a bit better than the stock brakes? I'm pretty much figuring that as I replace any part in my car I'll just put something a bit nicer to kinda improve on my car over time...
Thanks again</TD></TR></TABLE>

The stock brakes are limited by the tires. Get going a decent speed, slam on the brakes, and you'll feel the ABS activate. If you can do this (trip the ABS or lock up the tires), you have more brake friction than you have tire traction.

If you want to stop in a shorter distance, then you want tires with more grip.

If you are overheating your brakes during track events, and need better fade resistance, that is when upgrading the brakes can be beneficial.

Now, different brake pad compounds have different characteristics. I had a set of Hawk HPS, and didn't like them for street use, but love them for autocross duty. The initial bite is great, but makes it somewhat difficult to start braking smoothly in traffic. They also dust up something fierce. I now daily on Hawk Ceramic pads, since they dust much less than even stock pads and have very smooth initial bite.

The more performance oriented brake pads are generally harsher on rotors as well, giving a shorter useful lifespan.

You'll need to decide how you want your brakes to behave before you can decide which pads are best for you.

E-AT_me

more often than not, the brakes are warped by incorrectly torqued lug nuts..

anyways, i have taken my 11k mile fit on the track, and still have not warped the rotors.

i dont really know what to tell you though. sorry.

BoostLE

Does your pulsing shake the steering wheel or does it feel like a pulse in the brake force? My steering wheel doesn't shake at all, but you feel the brakes applying unevenly as you come to a stop. I guess the sensation is best described as your head bobs forward and back while the brake pedal is in the same spot. Perhaps it's the drums? This is sadly my first car with drums.

dank24

wrapped rotors is a myth

claymore

No it's not take it from somebody that has turned hundreds of them. You can MEASURE the out of proper runout with precision measuring instruments if you know how to use them and had ever tried ,see, hear and feel the runout while turning them. And it's NOT just built up worn pad material it's easy enough to check just drop a magnet into the turnings guess what the are attracted to the magnet and brake crud will not stick to a magnet. I guess Honda pays out all those warped rotor warranty claims just to loose money??

BudgetFitting

I am sure you know this; but after you come to a stop you need to apply only as much force on the brake pedal as needed to stop the car from rolling.

This is my GF's problem, and she warps rotors like nobody's business

SupremeTaco

Ahh, good insight, thanks again! I like the idea of something with a little more bite than the stock pads... I don't race it on a track or anything (yet) so a compromise between long life and super quick stopping (I also have wider tires on there with much better grip than stock)

The wheel doesn't vibrate from stopping, Boost... which is also strange... But when the dealer turned the rotors it DID temporarily fix it, so it has to do with the front brakes.

As to holding the brake after you stop, I also avoid that... Since it's the m/t it's easy to not use the brakes at all most of the time after being stopped. BTW, my GF also has screwed up rotors because of that... haha

BoostLE

Wow, so your wheel doesn't vibrate either. I too had the rotors turned and they cut a little more than .5mm off each rotor which lessened the problem but it came right back. I hope it's not a loose suspension/wheel bearing issue.
You bitches that keep saying there is no such thing as a warped rotor need to watch one on a lathe.

TunerN00b

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by claymore &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No it's not take it from somebody that has turned hundreds of them. You can MEASURE the out of proper runout with precision measuring instruments if you know how to use them and had ever tried ,see, hear and feel the runout while turning them. And it's NOT just built up worn pad material it's easy enough to check just drop a magnet into the turnings guess what the are attracted to the magnet and brake crud will not stick to a magnet. I guess Honda pays out all those warped rotor warranty claims just to loose money??</TD></TR></TABLE>


http://www.stoptech.com/tech_i...shtml
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StopTech &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The term "warped brake disc" has been in common use in motor racing for decades. When a driver reports a vibration under hard braking, inexperienced crews, after checking for (and not finding) cracks often attribute the vibration to "warped discs". They then measure the disc thickness in various places, find significant variation and the diagnosis is cast in stone.

When disc brakes for high performance cars arrived on the scene we began to hear of "warped brake discs" on road going cars, with the same analyses and diagnoses. Typically, the discs are resurfaced to cure the problem and, equally typically, after a relatively short time the roughness or vibration comes back. Brake roughness has caused a significant number of cars to be bought back by their manufacturers under the "lemon laws". This has been going on for decades now - and, like most things that we have cast in stone, the diagnoses are wrong.

With one qualifier, presuming that the hub and wheel flange are flat and in good condition and that the wheel bolts or hat mounting hardware is in good condition, installed correctly and tightened uniformly and in the correct order to the recommended torque specification, in more than 40 years of professional racing, including the Shelby/Ford GT 40s – one of the most intense brake development program in history - I have never seen a warped brake disc. I have seen lots of cracked discs, (FIGURE 1) discs that had turned into shallow cones at operating temperature because they were mounted rigidly to their attachment bells or top hats, (FIGURE 2) a few where the friction surface had collapsed in the area between straight radial interior vanes, (FIGURE 3) and an untold number of discs with pad material unevenly deposited on the friction surfaces - sometimes visible and more often not. (FIGURE 4)

In fact every case of "warped brake disc" that I have investigated, whether on a racing car or a street car, has turned out to be friction pad material transferred unevenly to the surface of the disc. This uneven deposition results in thickness variation (TV) or run-out due to hot spotting that occurred at elevated temperatures.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

claymore

What a crock. First the major evidence is that ALL vehicle manufactures pay out millions and millions of dollars in warranty claims. Nobody disputes that evidence right? Well don't you think that if they could quote this guy (if it was true) and stop paying out millions of dollars in claims they wouldn't have done so already?? Give me a brake (pun intended)

"It's the internet" LOL this guy can make any claim he wants and start more bullmyths but that doesn't make it true.

Like I said measure the runout not the disc thickness and you can see for yourself that this guy is full of bullmyth. Easy like I said and have done many time for fun while standing there watching rotors being turned drop a magnet into the turnings and see how they stick to the magnet .....worn brake pad material will not stick to a magnet.

It's easy just mount a pair of warped rotors into a rotor lathe and you can see with the naked eye how warped they are even before you start cutting. Then once you start cutting you can see, feel, and hear METAL being removed NOT brake pad material. Anyone that has turned a rotor will tell you this guy is full of bullmyth.

pablopower

I had a similar problem on my 2000 Civic, my brakes would vibrate the steering wheel. I later replaced my pads and had the rotors resurfaced and the problem came back again, IMO once a set of rotors gets warped you can turn it as many times as you want and it will always go back to being warped. I just bought and installed a set of Powerslots and HPS Hawk pads and they seem to be holding up.

TunerN00b

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by claymore &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
"It's the internet" LOL this guy can make any claim he wants and start more bullmyths but that doesn't make it true.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I personally have no beef in this fight, so I'm done with this post. Continue to preach whatever you feel is appropriate, I ain't coming back to this thread.

However, it should be pointed out that StopTech is not just "some guy on the net", they are a major brake company that happens to post up a nice selection of technical articles to help educate their customers (and potential customers).
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_i...shtml

Me? I'm just some guy who happens to have linked to one of their articles. Ignore me all you want, but read their articles if you want useful information.

Lastly, as far as everyone here on HT is concerned, claymore, you too are just another guy on the net spouting "bullmyths". Back it up, link to a trustworthy resource that supports your claims. Give people information, and then let them decide what is and is not "bullmyth".

Ok, I'm out.

claymore

OK you not here anymore so I guess this is for everybody else. I did post my evidence it's the fact that ALL manufacturers of motor vehicles since the first vehicle came stock with brake rotors always have and still PAY OUT MILLIONS in warranty claims for warped rotors and don't think for one second that if they DIDN'T HAVE TOO they would stop paying claims in seconds and save themselves MILLIONS of dollars that's not hard to understand.

It's a fact manufacturers (you know "STEALERSHIPS" like many people refer to them) if they are going to cut corners and do things AS CHEAP AS POSSIBLE don't you think ALL THEIR engineers would have told them already "we don't have to pay these claims because Rotors don't warp".... IF IT WERE TRUE?????

And would EVERY automotive shop from tiny one man shops to EVERY FACTORY AUTHORIZED DEALERSHIP still have brake rotor lathes in their shop IF THEY DIDN'T HAVE TOO.

True internet age guy you are "link to a trustworthy resource" I already said ANYONE can go down to their favorite shop and watch a rotor being turned IN REAL LIFE to see, hear and measure run out WITH THEIR OWN EYES. No need to do everything ON THE NET isn't using your own eyes better than reading about it from some dubious source on the net???

And I have DONE IT many hundreds of times unlike you I don't have to link to a source I have been PAID to do it and reported my experience as a line mechanic... some people READ ABOUT IT SOME PEOPLE DO IT.

When you first approach the rotor with the cutter tip and start cutting you can SEE where the tip of the cutter starts removing METAL from the high spots leaving other parts of the rotor untouched and you can hear the cutter "sing" when it's cutting and when it is not touching the low spots, any EXPERIENCED rotor lathe operator can cut rotors without looking at them JUST BY THE SOUND you could cut them blind folded if YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING and have done it a sufficient amount of times.

It's very EASY ( turning rotors is NOT rocket science) no need to have it dictated to you "ON THE NET" get your butt down to you local shop and learn something with your own ears and eyes it's much more REAL and way better than reading about it "ON THE NET" you know like REAL LIFE.


Modified by claymore at 2:22 AM 7/18/2008


Modified by claymore at 2:22 AM 7/18/2008

dank24

Told yea its a myth. You can claim all your "data", but my family friend owns/races nascar trucks. He told me himself warrped rotors is a myth with rpoof backing him up. I believe a experienced nascar driver over some dude on the internet.

rocksnap

Claymore is a minion. I have whipped him on this subject on another Fit site. He loves to spread disinformation to all who will listen. Someday he may grow up, but till then we have to deal with him and his lack of knowlage.

I totally agree with ya. To truely "warp" a rotor there has to be a mechanical problem, like a stuck caliper that really heats up the rotor, and then you would have to come to a stop to have an uneven pad transfer. Even under severe use it would be highly unusual to warp a rotor. It all boils down to improper pad transfer. Or rather uneven pad transfer.

I have personally tracked a heavy V-8 BMW with a track suspension, race tires and race pads (high heat), on stock calipers and rotors. I had issues with improper pad transfer but never warped them. Trust me, they got plunty hot.

If pads are not bedded properly you may get uneven transfer, making it feel warped. You can re bed the pads when this happens. Do some moderate to heavy braking from 50-30 5-6 times WITHOUT coming to a complete stop. Then again from 60-30 several times. You want to heat up the rotors close to the point of getting brake fade. You should smell the pads heating up. Then drive the car for a mile WITHOUT coming to a stop -- VERY IMPORTANT!!! This will cool off the brakes. If able, park it for several hours to let all completely cool off.

Your goal is to scrub the rotors of the old pad material and high spots and re-transfer newer pad material. If you truely had warped rotors this would not work. But trust me, it does.

As to claymores claim of actually measuring runout on a lathe. What he is failing to mention is he is only using a runout guage in one side. Pad material transfer is, for all intentional purposes, invisible. If it were truly warped you would have a negative runout opposite the positive runout. Unless claymore can somehow defeat the laws of physics. And of course you can hear/see metal being scrapped off when you turn a rotor. What idiot would thing otherwise!!! After all, the rotor is being turned!!! I give claymore credit here, it is not rocket science. Unless of course, one was to turn air off the rotor! Only claymore can!

claymore

Wow you can use your vocabulary a minion WOW too bad your attempt at showing off your advanced vocabulary FAILED you should know by now I do not follow anybody love me or hate me you should know that by now I lead not follow like you are doing trying to advance another sites brake theories. Too bad you don't have any mechanical knowledge to back up your advanced vocabulary but wait you failed at vocabulary and you are failing at warped rotor theory so I guess it's a wash.

What a laugh that you ever Whipped me on ANY SUBJECT ON ANY SITE you sir are delusional. I proved you wrong on the kiddie site and doing the same thing on this one and every site you want to go on BECAUSE YOUR THEORY IS HALF BAKED AND EASILY PROVEN WRONG and you would know that IF YOU HAD EVER DONE IT YOURSELF INSTEAD OF ONLY TALKING ABOUT IT . Please come down to earth and join the rest of us in "THE REAL WORLD"

You keep avoiding the evidence like any kid will do... the question you keep avoiding is WHY DOES EVERY CAR MANUFACTURER IN THE WORLD KEEP PAYING WARRANTY CLAIMS COSTING THEM MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IF BRAKE ROTORS NEVER WARP.... FLASH..... HE FINALLY ADMITS ROTORS WARP IN HIS LATEST POST so we can stop now he has admitted he is wrong in the major point of his posts...... naaahhhh

So again you are saying that because you drive a car and have read an article on the net you have more knowledge than the thousands of FACTORY EMPLOYED ENGINEERS AND THEY ALL MUST BE WRONG AND YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE THAT IS RIGHT????? You who has never turned or measured a rotor know more than all those factory engineers???

To your point about measuring both sides of the rotor WHY?????? It goes to your complete lack of knowledge about what you are taking about your ignorance of the subject if you will.

When you work and actually get paid to turn rotors the more time you waste farting around trying to prove some juvenile easily proven wrong THEORY the less money you are putting into your pocket. If you measure the first part and it is out of run out specs. why on earth would you WASTE more time measuring the other side when you already know the rotor needs to be turned UNLESS you are trying so hard to prove your unprovable, incorrect, juvenile, half baked THEORY not trying to put money in your pocket by actually doing the work and get paid for it?? Again this just shows your ignorance of the subject being discussed BECAUSE YOU HAVE NEVER DONE IT AND ARE OUT OF YOUR DEPTH WHEN DISCUSSING MECHANICAL SUBJECTS.

Your total lack of knowledge, ignorance if you will, is showing when you TRY to make a point about the actual turning of a rotor in a brake lathe when you have NO DIRECT KNOWLEDGE OF THE SUBJECT ONLY YOUR INCORRECT THEORY.

If you had EVER DONE IT it would be much more easy to educate you but I will try one more time just for you.

When one is turning a WARPED rotor the the cutting tool is gradually moved closer to the working surface of the rotor that needs to be machined in graduated steps (that to mechanical for you??). The first few passes remove very little metal (not brake crud like you THINK) and you can see with your own eyes that that tool bit is SOMETIMES in contact with the working surface and SOMETIMES it is NOT in contact after all the rotor is warped that's why we are talking about it. When the tool is in contact and removing METAL shavings there is one sound and when it is not in touch there is another sound what IDIOT (quoting you) can't understand that????? O, I know one that has never ACTUALLY DONE IT FOR HIMSELF and just likes to hear himself THEORIZE not actually done it.

There you go you understand the subject yet if not I would suggest that you educate yourself BY ACTUALLY DOING WHAT YOU ARE PONTIFICATING ABOUT INSTEAD OF SHOWING OFF YOUR IGNORANCE BY TRYING TO TALK ABOUT SOMETHING YOU HAVE NEVER DONE it's so much easier to understand when you have accomplished the tasks yourself.


Modified by claymore at 1:21 AM 7/19/2008

claymore

And for spank24 yep it's a bitch when someone like you cries about someone you hate and then they demonstrate that they know more about a subject than you do life's a bit** right.

But anyway were taking about stock vehicles but if you want to discuss RACING vehicles with us please start another thread.

claymore

Sorry but it's like LOL your analogy..... OH OH I have a car and drive it REALLY REALLY fast and the brakes get REALLY REALLY hot and the brakes on my car never warp ergo nobody else should have the brakes on their car warp either.... It's like me saying I walked down a dark street at midnight in Detroit and didn't get shot ... but that's like warped brakes NOT YET.

SupremeTaco

Sorry claymore, but I did what he said (nothing to lose, right?) and it worked... I only did it like 7 times, and my brakes were really really bad before, and now it's barely noticeable (i was about out of gas and far away from a gas station... didn't want to risk running out!).

Although now that I've slammed on my brakes, I really got to know the stopping ability of my car, and I feel like upgrading anyway...

PS thanks for all the advice guys Rocksnap, you finally put my mind to ease on this frickin annoying issue that has bothered me for a LONG time!!!!

JMooney5115

I thought it was possible. I know you need to get your rotors turned when they wear uneven.