NorincoKid

Hi! Not sure if this the appropriate sub-forum. Vehicle is a 1998 CR-V that (for reasons unknown to me) has a B18B1 engine in it. It "does" run, it just doesn't run well. It gives me the following codes with my cheap OBD2 scanner;

P0300 - Random/Multiple Misfire
P0301-4 - Misfire Cyl 1-4
P1399 - Manufacturer Control(?)

I pulled the spark plugs. They were "ok" looking. Pretty normal, no signs of running super rich or lean or deformation.

I read that a "valve adjustment" seems to be a possible solution for this but wanted to rule out a straight-up electrical issue first, as this is a bastard swap project and who knows what's going on under the hood. A few other small issues kindof make me lean toward electrical (AC doesnt turn on the cooling fans, fans were wired to be always on when I got it and the AC compressor clutch wired directly to that). But thats for another thread.

Anywho....took quick look at the distributor and it appears to be very, very out of whack. I looked for pictures (google-fu) of Honda dizzy's but 99.9% were showing them new or off the engine so not very helpful.

It would appear that its so far off base it couldn't even be bolted on properly. I tried to take pictures but my phone isn't the greatest camera;








I admit I'm not super knowledgeable about car stuff but I think there's only a few reasons for this to be so "wrong" looking.

A. Whoever did the B18 swap used the old B20 distributer (or whole head, who knows) due to wiring/OBD compatibility and just tossed it on there and wiggled it around till it "sounded right" and called it a day.

B. Timing belt is off a tooth (or two, or more dunno) and this is trying to compensate for that. I should know a little more when I can find a buddy with a timing light.


Would this f*ckery be a root cause for all the codes I'm getting and medicore (at best) running/performance? Once or twice it has just completely cut out while driving but seems to get its act together if I depress the clutch pedal and rev it, perhaps a completely different issue but may be related to the ICM/Coil/Igniter in the jacked up distributer?

Any insight appreciated.

Going to try to get this to get along a little better but will probably wind up shopping around for a proper B20 CRV engine soon by the looks of it.

ThisIsMatt

Wow...this sounds like a mess. Timing belt being off a tooth is definitely a good place to start as it will cause misfires and a poor running condition at idle that evens out higher in the RPM range. The first time I did a timing belt on my V I missed by a tooth and it idled like crap...probably around 400-500 RPMs and with some throttle it would clean up. I didn't try to drive it though. It was evident that something was wrong, and while doing the belt I kinda had a feeling that I was off a tooth. I think if you're off by 2 teeth the thing wouldn't even run. More than 2 teeth and you're bending valves. Hell, off by 2 teeth might even cause interference...I don't honestly know. I'd start by checking the belt line-up though, follow that with checking timing. Is the wiring harness hacked to hell? If the car has some or all of a B18 in it, which ECM is in it?

NorincoKid

Indeed.

I'm hoping youre right. I don't really know much about the Honda stuff, learning as I go. But that dizzy looks really, really off-base and the car is (kinda) drivable as-is so it really makes me wonder what went wrong. Could this maybe be partially from improperly setting the ignition timing (IE "NOT" jumping that little plug for the ECU under the dash and it was being adjusted physically AND via ECU giving whoever did the job a hard time?)

It doesnt appear to be. The harness is all jacked up for the fans/AC related things but the engine sensors etc seem to be unmolested. It may be possible whoever did the swap used the B20 head/intake, I really don't know enough to say. There are markings on the head if they are helpful.

Looking up the ECU numbers it appears to be the "proper" one for a 1998 CRV 2.0L B20 Manual trans vehicle.

.

NorincoKid

Just realized the pics may not being showing up properly, uploaded them a different way.

ThisIsMatt

I'm ... ... speechless. For those of you out there spending hours a week at church, get ready to enjoy much more free time in your schedule because this sort of thing is proof that there is no god. I'm astonished on so many levels right now...that this thing runs, that someone went through the trouble to make a bracket to put on a distributor that far off, that the distributor o-ring is sealing with the distributor being held on by 1 bolt...oh my

Ok, I'm not sure I've ever seen anything quite this messed up, but I'm going to suggest that you first take off the timing covers and look at the timing belt. It has to be at least a tooth off. It seems like someone missed correct timing while doing the belt, and then compensated for that by creating a whole new range of adjustment for the distributor. If you find the timing belt is off, that'll make a lot of sense. Get rid of that little bracket at the top of the distributor and re-bolt on the distributor so that all the bolt locations on the head are inside the slotted areas on the distributor. Then play with your timing to get it locked down. Not only will you likely not get the engine in time with the way the distributor is currently oriented, you shouldn't!

Anyone else have a different read on this situation? Someone should go to Honda Jail for that bit of "engineering creativity".

NorincoKid

Yeah tried explaining it but I think the pics really put it into perspective. Something ain't right with it.

I got the timing cover off this morning, just have to find a proper socket (19mm?) and long enough extension to try to turn the crank and see how it all lines up.

But yeah when I got the vehicle it was running/driving. Not well, figured it needed some love but didn't think it would be this screwed up.

It was (is) driveable but would randomly cut out, like complete loss of power/unable to rev. I have a relay that I can't find in any diagrams next to the ECU that looks important and was rusted out, physically broken and the connections corroded very badly thats the next thing to figure out what its for but should probably see whats up with this dizzy first. All messed up.

If it looks like its going to be a real PITA I guess i'm picking up a B20B and just getting her back to where she's supposed to be.

ThisIsMatt

Dropping in another B20B may be a pretty good plan. If this is how the previous owner dealt with timing issues, who knows what else is going on around that engine.

NorincoKid

Well got some pictures. I'm not entirely sure but this would appear to be normal from what I can tell.

Lined up with the single white mark on the crank, cam gears oriented with the marks together. Is everything in the right place? If the mechanical timing is correct I can't think of a reason to have the distributor so far off center like that.

ThisIsMatt

It's not in your picture, but I assume the "UP" arrows on the cam sprockets are facing up? I'm a little surprised to see that the marks are lining up...I'll admit. When I missed proper alignment on mine it was because I had the crank gear off by one tooth. The cams are pretty easy to line up, but the crank is a bit more challenging because the reference for the tooth hash isn't quite as obvious. I see that your pulley timing mark is dead on though... I wonder if it's possible that the crank key is gone and the crank pulley is just being held tight by the friction of the bolt flange against the pulley face. That's about the only thing I can think of...especially this early in the morning.

NorincoKid

Yeah, as sad as it sounds I was kinda hoping to take it apart and see something visibly "wrong" but it looks alright to me. I had a buddy lend me a timing light, when it gets a little darker out today I'm going to see whats up with it (with the distributor in its current f'd up position).

So some random thoughts;

If the crank was skipping around, it seems highly unlikely that it just happened to be skipped into the "right" position when I took it apart to look. I know a broken clock is right twice a day, but it just seems unlikely to me. But not impossible I guess, I will probably look into that if all other avenues of investigation turn up nothing.


The distributor. Havent removed it yet (as it is still running and want to see with the light where its actually at), but out of curiosity I'm wondering if maybe its a case of OBD incompatibility with whatever distributor was on the B18 engine. Maybe the PO used the CRV dizzy? And just really super botched the job somehow? Never taken a honda one apart but looking at pics it appears that its kindof "keyed" into the cam end, kinda hard to screw up. Unless there is a gear inside the distributor that can be adjusted as well. Either way, if mechanical timing seems OK I guess the next step is that distributor.

ThisIsMatt

I wasn't thinking that it just happened to skip into place, I was thinking more that the key was either lost or somehow FUBAR'd, never went back into the assembly, and then the "mechanic" mistakenly set the crank off by a tooth or two and compounded the mistake by ensuring that the crank pulley mark still lined up with the front cover mark so that they could just pull any issue with timing back into place with a light and some (LOTS of) distributor twisting. It's a stretch, but seeing the timing marks staring at each other there...I'm not quite sure where else to go with it. I assume there could be a distributor issue. I'm not sure how different the CR-V and Integra distributors are. Report back after your timing light adventure! I'm on the edge of my seat.