firejackal

For those who don't know, SiR knuckles are like the DA knuckles, where the part on the knuckle the tie rod end attaches to is closer to the body of the car, because of this, when using a USDM tie rod end, even with it adjusted all the way in, you will still have too much toe in to drive the car safe, and straight.

Since I haven't came across a solution yet from my research I thought I'd let you guys help me out with your knowledge.

First is, the body of the car is a 91 HF.
The knuckles I am using are the SiR knuckles.

For those who ask why SiR? Cause they was dirt cheap from a friend and you can't really pass that up to use a good part.

I've read I can shorten the outer tie rod end by 1cm, and also extend the outer's threads (I have no clue how to do that.) but instead what I want to know, is there another vehicle which uses shorter tie rod ends that I can use instead?

So far the USDM crxs uses the same tie rod ends that also the integras use, and the civics up to 00 (comparisons on cars I have.) which I measured at 197mm in length.

I have read someone used 3rd Generation Prelude tie rod ends, but looking at pictures of these, they are very short.

90 Accord looks to be outer tie rod end are 217mm, inner is 140mm.
90 Prelude looks to be inner is 260mm (moog is 279mm). Can't find outer end size, but looks like to be 1/3 of the crx size.
I can't find specs on the USDM crx tie rod sizes.

I wasn't wanting to replace the inner tie rods, but am I going to be forced too?
I was also reading someone used the canadian inner and outer tie rod ends from the 91 crx. If this is the case, does anyone know where to order canadian parts from inside the USA? Or maybe a part number I can find on amazon and order it there?

I'm tempted to buy some cheap prelude tie rod ends just to see how big they are and how they fit.

For those of you who are running this knuckle, what setup are you guys using?

Thanks in advance.

zrickety

iTrader: (1)

I'm running the DA knuckles with the crx tie rods, alignment is good. I'm surprised you need something shorter. You could have a machine shop drill and tap yours if it's absolutely necessary, but you may be better off just finding DA knuckles.

firejackal

Thanks for the quick reply zrickety.

I got some DA knuckles that came off a DA shell I have, but one side has a bad hub (deep grooves into the hub beyond repair.) and since they was bad, I picked up the SiRs not realizing the problems I would of came across.

And plus I had to replace one of the SiR's wheel bearings, that cost me $150+ for the bearing and labor, so I think I'm going to try to get them to work... haha.

As a note, SiR's knuckles uses bigger wheel bearings then the typical CRX knuckles. They are the size of the DA wheel bearings.

I'm still in the search of a shorter tie rod end, factory or aftermarket modified.
I think I need it a half inch shorter.
I went ahead and ordered a cheap set of prelude tie rods to see how they line up, but probably won't get them till the end of next week. And I have the feeling it won't even reach the inner tie rods since the prelude's inner tie rods are a lot longer then the crx's and civics are.

I can't drive the car as is, it's scary. Even when driving it, the steering wheel is all over the place. Before I had adjusted the tie rods all the way in, it wanted to suck me into the ditch.

firejackal

Update to this... On one side I ended up having a little bit more thread (about three threads or so) for the tie rod end that I didn't noticed due to rust, this gave me enough room to get the car to drive straight, but one tire is still out just a little. I have determined there is no further adjustment I can do on the inner or outer tie rods without modification or swap parts in/out.

Because it is somewhat derivable now (been driving it for a week) I am not going to further investigate this because I don't have money to just buy random inner and outer tie rod ends to see what gives more adjustment. (I did get the prelude tie rods, and they are very very short, would not work)

JMZ400

I too used the SiR Knuncles and discovered the same issue, but was lucky enough to have had the Sir tie rod ends to match and used them. I did some searching on RockAuto.com and they acutually give you the option of choosing parts for the "european market DOHC 1.6L" CRX when you drill down to select your parts. Under the DOHC version the Outter Tie Rod is listed as 180mm. I cannot find a listing under the USDM Tie Rods that offer the overall length spec, but maybe you can measure yours. I'll be in the same boat as you when mine wear out. I did load the DOHC tie rod in the shopping cart and it appeared as though I could order it through them. Hope this helps. Be safe!

firejackal

Thanks for the information JMZ400.
I'm unable to find DOHC version tie rod listings on rockauto. When expanding the parts list I only see two tie rod ends that is listed as euro made by FAI. But it has no information about the overall length. Do you have the product number for the one you was looking at?

The product information for the regular crx tie rod end by raybestos (Which is what i have right now I believe) gives dimensions for that product. It says "end to centerline length" is 7.09" which is 180.086mm.
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/more...111&cc=1169344
So that would mean the one you was looking at wouldn't work since they are the same length.

I have been driving with this setup since I posted this last august. So that is what, 7 months? They are adjusted in as far in as it goes, I still have a little pull to the right.
There is not enough adjustment for me to get a proper alignment which sucks.
The other option would to be find an inner tie rod which is shorter.
Or find an outer tie rod end from another honda, as far as I know (up to my 99 si) the outer tie rod ends are all the same, but I never did length comparisons.

Hope that made sense, trying to quickly write out stuff before heading to work.

JMZ400

Not sure why you are only seeing those two. After you click on CRX in the menu, then choose DOHC 1.6L and NO American Flag Next to it. Then select steering and then tie rod end. Should list about 10 or so. Here's the link...

https://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,c...,parttype,7428

firejackal

Okay I see why I didn't had an option for the DOHC choice.
At the very top of the catalog there is a little selection to choose what country to display, USA was selected by default.

I found this page http://www.angelfire.com/ca/DrOhm/SiRkuckles.html
which goes on to explain if you have an SI rack then you will have no problem, but if you don't (i have an HF) then you need to extend the threads on the tie rod end.
So now I need to think about this... If the threads was extended, you wouldn't be able to get positive toe beyond a point for alignment... so maybe a tie rod end that is shorter but not too short. maybe something between 154.6mm and 180mm. 180mm seems to be the stock size normally.

4drEF

SiR knuckle install I did way back in 2003.

http://web.archive.org/web/200410240...kles/index.htm

Why on earth was your wheel bearing so much?
It is just a standard DA bearing.

firejackal

Thanks for the reply 4drEF, I have came across something like that before and I have been avoiding doing that method since a lot of people tell me not to do that cause it will eventually crack the inner tie rod.

But I'd rather just find shorter outer/inner tie rod ends to avoid doing any modifications. Sounds like I might have to switch to a SI rack, but I wonder whats different with the SI rack, is the inner tie rods shorter, or is the steering rack itself different, besides being a little heavier.

4drEF

So cutting new threads leads to cracking an inner tie rod? That doesn't make any sense.

I ran that setup abusively hard for about 5 years before parting with it.

firejackal

I'll take that into consideration, I might do it on the set from my da parts bin. I just think there has to be an easier way.

I'm looking up some euro inner tie rod ends at the moment since I found some shorter off of a civic. and plus I haven't replaced the inner tie rod ends yet since i bought the car.