swapping d15z1 into 89 Civic LX
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swapping d15z1 into 89 Civic LX
After aday of exploring putting the D15B VTEC into the car, I'm starting to favor the idea of the D15Z1 a bit more. it's VTEC-e, and is a green machine.
What problems should i expect to run into? Does anyone think this would be a difficult swap? I'd have to switch to obd1 and mpfi, but that's no big deal really.
It would give me more HP than I currently have, and MUCH better fuel economy.
I'm more interesting in knowing if the swap is goign to be that big of a deal. All of the info I've found is for swapping to a CX, and nothing is found for a pre-92.
What problems should i expect to run into? Does anyone think this would be a difficult swap? I'd have to switch to obd1 and mpfi, but that's no big deal really.
It would give me more HP than I currently have, and MUCH better fuel economy.
I'm more interesting in knowing if the swap is goign to be that big of a deal. All of the info I've found is for swapping to a CX, and nothing is found for a pre-92.
#4
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Re: swapping d15z1 into 89 Civic LX (SiMateoAko)
Should be just like swapping any other OBD1 d series engine. As long as you get the correct ecu for the d15z1 I don't forsee any problems. You just need to convert to mpfi and use a conversion harness. Also you will need to swap out the drivers side motor mount and bracket for one off of your current engine if I am not mistaken. You will also need to use your current transmission and the clutch and flywheel off of the d15z1.
#6
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Re: (SVOboy)
Yeah, any 88-91 civic crx trans will bolt up to pretty much any d series engine besides the d16a1 provided the clutch and flywheel are matched to the transmission.
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Re: (91civic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 91civic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah, any 88-91 civic crx trans will bolt up to pretty much any d series engine besides the d16a1 provided the clutch and flywheel are matched to the transmission.</TD></TR></TABLE>
So I could use the VX tranny or the DX tranny I currently use? I'm not sure which would be easier, but I imagine it would be the perfect time to make a hybrid tranny (5th gear from VX of HF for better highway mileage).
Since I"ve never done a conversion of any sorts before (obd0->obd1 or DPFI -> MPFI) I think I'll just leave it to the mechanic. Perhaps I can jsut get all of the needed parts (harness, new wires, etc) and have them worry about it.
Unless there is honda-techer in Utah that wants to hook a brutha up with some help (you'll be paid, of course).
So I could use the VX tranny or the DX tranny I currently use? I'm not sure which would be easier, but I imagine it would be the perfect time to make a hybrid tranny (5th gear from VX of HF for better highway mileage).
Since I"ve never done a conversion of any sorts before (obd0->obd1 or DPFI -> MPFI) I think I'll just leave it to the mechanic. Perhaps I can jsut get all of the needed parts (harness, new wires, etc) and have them worry about it.
Unless there is honda-techer in Utah that wants to hook a brutha up with some help (you'll be paid, of course).
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#8
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Re: swapping d15z1 into 89 Civic LX (SiMateoAko)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SiMateoAko »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wow... has NO ONE ever done this? Is ANYONE familiar enough with this engine to comment on it?</TD></TR></TABLE>
It's just like doing ANY other OBDI D-Series engine, bro.
Get the proper ECU, get a OBDI conversion harness and you're good to go.
I'd say get an HF transmission or convert to hydro and run the VX tranny. You probably won't see near the gas mileage you want if you stay with like a DX tranny.
You cannot use the VX tranny without converting to hydro. The mounting point on the transmission is also different so you'd probably have to do some fab work there.
One thing to remember, though....is that this engine, and the HF tranny in particular, were designed for a car CONSIDERABLY lighter than your sedan.
I'm afraid any potential increase in gas mileage will be canceled out by the fact that you're going to have to push the engine a little harder to get yourself moving and to stay moving without bogging down.
What is your gas mileage goal? You want 50mpg on the highway?
It's just like doing ANY other OBDI D-Series engine, bro.
Get the proper ECU, get a OBDI conversion harness and you're good to go.
I'd say get an HF transmission or convert to hydro and run the VX tranny. You probably won't see near the gas mileage you want if you stay with like a DX tranny.
You cannot use the VX tranny without converting to hydro. The mounting point on the transmission is also different so you'd probably have to do some fab work there.
One thing to remember, though....is that this engine, and the HF tranny in particular, were designed for a car CONSIDERABLY lighter than your sedan.
I'm afraid any potential increase in gas mileage will be canceled out by the fact that you're going to have to push the engine a little harder to get yourself moving and to stay moving without bogging down.
What is your gas mileage goal? You want 50mpg on the highway?
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Re: swapping d15z1 into 89 Civic LX (Jonathan_ED3)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jonathan_ED3 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's just like doing ANY other OBDI D-Series engine, bro.
Get the proper ECU, get a OBDI conversion harness and you're good to go.
I'd say get an HF transmission or convert to hydro and run the VX tranny. You probably won't see near the gas mileage you want if you stay with like a DX tranny.
You cannot use the VX tranny without converting to hydro. The mounting point on the transmission is also different so you'd probably have to do some fab work there.
One thing to remember, though....is that this engine, and the HF tranny in particular, were designed for a car CONSIDERABLY lighter than your sedan.
I'm afraid any potential increase in gas mileage will be canceled out by the fact that you're going to have to push the engine a little harder to get yourself moving and to stay moving without bogging down.
What is your gas mileage goal? You want 50mpg on the highway? </TD></TR></TABLE>
I'd like 50mpg on the highway... or better. I checked the weight and the sedan is less than 200lbs heavier than the VX. I know, however, that the VX is more aerodynamic than the sedan, so that will probably hurt me a little bit.
I actually got 45 mpg from SLC, UT to Southern California. I was shocked. After the head gasket blew and I probably warped my engine, I was only getting 33mpg on the way back up. Part of that may have been due to a slight incline on the trip back, but I'm not quiet sure.
Perhaps I'd be better off just finding a d15b2 engine with low miles and using that. The swap would be direct (no conversions, etc.), and I could probably build the hybrid tranny in the process. I could throw on the K&N air filter, lose a little weight (100 pounds or so) and I'm sure my mileage will increase a tad. It might be better than going through the hassle of converting to obd1, mpfi, and will probably cost me less.
Any comments? or should I still look into the 3-stage JDM D15B Vtec for a gas mileage increase?
Get the proper ECU, get a OBDI conversion harness and you're good to go.
I'd say get an HF transmission or convert to hydro and run the VX tranny. You probably won't see near the gas mileage you want if you stay with like a DX tranny.
You cannot use the VX tranny without converting to hydro. The mounting point on the transmission is also different so you'd probably have to do some fab work there.
One thing to remember, though....is that this engine, and the HF tranny in particular, were designed for a car CONSIDERABLY lighter than your sedan.
I'm afraid any potential increase in gas mileage will be canceled out by the fact that you're going to have to push the engine a little harder to get yourself moving and to stay moving without bogging down.
What is your gas mileage goal? You want 50mpg on the highway? </TD></TR></TABLE>
I'd like 50mpg on the highway... or better. I checked the weight and the sedan is less than 200lbs heavier than the VX. I know, however, that the VX is more aerodynamic than the sedan, so that will probably hurt me a little bit.
I actually got 45 mpg from SLC, UT to Southern California. I was shocked. After the head gasket blew and I probably warped my engine, I was only getting 33mpg on the way back up. Part of that may have been due to a slight incline on the trip back, but I'm not quiet sure.
Perhaps I'd be better off just finding a d15b2 engine with low miles and using that. The swap would be direct (no conversions, etc.), and I could probably build the hybrid tranny in the process. I could throw on the K&N air filter, lose a little weight (100 pounds or so) and I'm sure my mileage will increase a tad. It might be better than going through the hassle of converting to obd1, mpfi, and will probably cost me less.
Any comments? or should I still look into the 3-stage JDM D15B Vtec for a gas mileage increase?
#10
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An LX is less than 200lbs heavier than the VX? I guess that could be true...the 88/89 cars are lighter than the 90/91.
I've got an '89 LX....I need to go weigh it. My VX weighed right at 2K lbs with a full tank of gas, full interior, spare, a/c etc.
At any rate, the VX is extremely aerodynamic, and everything about it is built for efficiency right down to the wheels.
I still think you should go for a d16z6. It's got more power and tq than a d15b, and since it's OBDI you can get it tuned for maximum efficiency. Get it tuned after intake, header, exhaust and your gas mileage will really show you how great these Honda motors are.
Converting to OBDI really isn't that much trouble at all.
How soon are you planning on doing something? Like I said, I've got an '89 LX and I'm putting in a d16z6. Mine should be up and fully running within the next month; I'll be more than happy to let you know what kind of gas mileage I'm getting after the swap.
I've got an '89 LX....I need to go weigh it. My VX weighed right at 2K lbs with a full tank of gas, full interior, spare, a/c etc.
At any rate, the VX is extremely aerodynamic, and everything about it is built for efficiency right down to the wheels.
I still think you should go for a d16z6. It's got more power and tq than a d15b, and since it's OBDI you can get it tuned for maximum efficiency. Get it tuned after intake, header, exhaust and your gas mileage will really show you how great these Honda motors are.
Converting to OBDI really isn't that much trouble at all.
How soon are you planning on doing something? Like I said, I've got an '89 LX and I'm putting in a d16z6. Mine should be up and fully running within the next month; I'll be more than happy to let you know what kind of gas mileage I'm getting after the swap.
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Re: (Jonathan_ED3)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jonathan_ED3 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">An LX is less than 200lbs heavier than the VX? I guess that could be true...the 88/89 cars are lighter than the 90/91.
I've got an '89 LX....I need to go weigh it. My VX weighed right at 2K lbs with a full tank of gas, full interior, spare, a/c etc.
At any rate, the VX is extremely aerodynamic, and everything about it is built for efficiency right down to the wheels.
I still think you should go for a d16z6. It's got more power and tq than a d15b, and since it's OBDI you can get it tuned for maximum efficiency. Get it tuned after intake, header, exhaust and your gas mileage will really show you how great these Honda motors are.
Converting to OBDI really isn't that much trouble at all.
How soon are you planning on doing something? Like I said, I've got an '89 LX and I'm putting in a d16z6. Mine should be up and fully running within the next month; I'll be more than happy to let you know what kind of gas mileage I'm getting after the swap. </TD></TR></TABLE>
According to the weights FAQ thread (https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=403871#4156615) the stock 89 LX weighs 2211. The 1992 Civic VX weighs 2094 I imagine that the aerodynamic nature of the VX helps a bit too with gas mileage.
I've already changed to aluminum wheels, which I'm sure help a bit. The stock steel rims must weigh a little bit more.
I'd be interested in knowing what type of gas mileage you get out of the d16z6. I've heard all sorts of arguments saying that more hp = better gas mileage and others saying it means worse gas mileage. I'd like someone to actually do the swap and compare the differences.
Engine size can't mean everything, b/c my friend's 3 cylinder 1.0L Geo Metro gets worse gas mileage than my stock 1.5L four banger. that's also a boxy car (sedan) compared to an aerodynamic car (metro).
At any rate, please let me know how it does. I can hold off on the swap for a while. My car is in my garage now just getting body work done. I wasn't planning on swapping for a while anyway (at least until the engine start crapping out on me) but I'd like to get ready for the swap by having all of the needed parts (engine, tranny, ECU, etc.)
I'm sure there is a lot of stuff I can do for weight reduction, which I may slowly do as the car progresses.
I've got an '89 LX....I need to go weigh it. My VX weighed right at 2K lbs with a full tank of gas, full interior, spare, a/c etc.
At any rate, the VX is extremely aerodynamic, and everything about it is built for efficiency right down to the wheels.
I still think you should go for a d16z6. It's got more power and tq than a d15b, and since it's OBDI you can get it tuned for maximum efficiency. Get it tuned after intake, header, exhaust and your gas mileage will really show you how great these Honda motors are.
Converting to OBDI really isn't that much trouble at all.
How soon are you planning on doing something? Like I said, I've got an '89 LX and I'm putting in a d16z6. Mine should be up and fully running within the next month; I'll be more than happy to let you know what kind of gas mileage I'm getting after the swap. </TD></TR></TABLE>
According to the weights FAQ thread (https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=403871#4156615) the stock 89 LX weighs 2211. The 1992 Civic VX weighs 2094 I imagine that the aerodynamic nature of the VX helps a bit too with gas mileage.
I've already changed to aluminum wheels, which I'm sure help a bit. The stock steel rims must weigh a little bit more.
I'd be interested in knowing what type of gas mileage you get out of the d16z6. I've heard all sorts of arguments saying that more hp = better gas mileage and others saying it means worse gas mileage. I'd like someone to actually do the swap and compare the differences.
Engine size can't mean everything, b/c my friend's 3 cylinder 1.0L Geo Metro gets worse gas mileage than my stock 1.5L four banger. that's also a boxy car (sedan) compared to an aerodynamic car (metro).
At any rate, please let me know how it does. I can hold off on the swap for a while. My car is in my garage now just getting body work done. I wasn't planning on swapping for a while anyway (at least until the engine start crapping out on me) but I'd like to get ready for the swap by having all of the needed parts (engine, tranny, ECU, etc.)
I'm sure there is a lot of stuff I can do for weight reduction, which I may slowly do as the car progresses.
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Re: (Jonathan_ED3)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jonathan_ED3 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I still think you should go for a d16z6. It's got more power and tq than a d15b, and since it's OBDI you can get it tuned for maximum efficiency. Get it tuned after intake, header, exhaust and your gas mileage will really show you how great these Honda motors are.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
BTW, check this out. I just read on another forum about a guy who switched from D15B VTEC to D16z6 and went from 42 mpg to 26 or so. I'll IM you the link since I don't want to violate board rules (posting to other forums)
I still think you should go for a d16z6. It's got more power and tq than a d15b, and since it's OBDI you can get it tuned for maximum efficiency. Get it tuned after intake, header, exhaust and your gas mileage will really show you how great these Honda motors are.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
BTW, check this out. I just read on another forum about a guy who switched from D15B VTEC to D16z6 and went from 42 mpg to 26 or so. I'll IM you the link since I don't want to violate board rules (posting to other forums)
#13
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How are you going to lose weight without stripping everything down from the LX that makes it an LX?
That's what I like about the ED sedans. You can have power everything, but still be relatively light. Since it's got a trunk and a rear seat that blocks out all the sound, they're MUCH quieter inside than the hatchback/CRX. It makes for a very comfortable and fun car.
If you start stripping stuff to make it lighter, you may as well have a hatch. And if you had a hatch, you may as well have a VX to begin with. Do you see where I'm going? Just something to think about.
I'm probably projecting my own feelings; you may not care about the comfort and power options of the sedan like I may.
Something to think about is that the '92 Si (which is the same weight as our cars...could even be heavier) was rated at 30mpg city/36mpg highway.
My sedan on the other hand (auto LX) is rated at 27mpg city/32mpg highway.
I personally see 36mpg combined.
From other personal experience, the d16z6 is a very efficient engine. When I owned a '92 Si, I consistently saw around 40mpg. This was with Intake, Header, and full exhaust....and I didn't drive as easy on the car (young and stupid) as I now do in my current cars.
At any rate, I'm rambling, but my point is that the d16z6 combined with the right parts and the right driver can be extremely efficient.
At the same time, it has a great powerband considering the displacement, aftermarket power parts are cheap and bountiful, and if you wanted great power you can bolt on a turbo kit at a low PSI to be safe and while you're out of boost your gas mileage will be virtually unchanged.
That's what I like about the ED sedans. You can have power everything, but still be relatively light. Since it's got a trunk and a rear seat that blocks out all the sound, they're MUCH quieter inside than the hatchback/CRX. It makes for a very comfortable and fun car.
If you start stripping stuff to make it lighter, you may as well have a hatch. And if you had a hatch, you may as well have a VX to begin with. Do you see where I'm going? Just something to think about.
I'm probably projecting my own feelings; you may not care about the comfort and power options of the sedan like I may.
Something to think about is that the '92 Si (which is the same weight as our cars...could even be heavier) was rated at 30mpg city/36mpg highway.
My sedan on the other hand (auto LX) is rated at 27mpg city/32mpg highway.
I personally see 36mpg combined.
From other personal experience, the d16z6 is a very efficient engine. When I owned a '92 Si, I consistently saw around 40mpg. This was with Intake, Header, and full exhaust....and I didn't drive as easy on the car (young and stupid) as I now do in my current cars.
At any rate, I'm rambling, but my point is that the d16z6 combined with the right parts and the right driver can be extremely efficient.
At the same time, it has a great powerband considering the displacement, aftermarket power parts are cheap and bountiful, and if you wanted great power you can bolt on a turbo kit at a low PSI to be safe and while you're out of boost your gas mileage will be virtually unchanged.
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Re: (SVOboy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SVOboy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What effect would a 5 psi boost have on a d15 or d16?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'll let you know pretty soon.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SiMateoAko »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wow... has NO ONE ever done this? Is ANYONE familiar enough with this engine to comment on it?</TD></TR></TABLE>
If you need help, PM me. I don't recommend doing the wiring the way I did (I made my own cabin and engine bay harnesses).
Its basically just like put any other OBD1 engine into a OBD0 car... just add the 5 wire O2 and the EGR crap.
I used the stock HF tranny (i think the VX and HF ratios are the same), 1st and 2nd gear are surprisingly peppy, but don't expect much outta 3rd, 4th or 5th...
I'll let you know pretty soon.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SiMateoAko »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wow... has NO ONE ever done this? Is ANYONE familiar enough with this engine to comment on it?</TD></TR></TABLE>
If you need help, PM me. I don't recommend doing the wiring the way I did (I made my own cabin and engine bay harnesses).
Its basically just like put any other OBD1 engine into a OBD0 car... just add the 5 wire O2 and the EGR crap.
I used the stock HF tranny (i think the VX and HF ratios are the same), 1st and 2nd gear are surprisingly peppy, but don't expect much outta 3rd, 4th or 5th...
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Re: (SVOboy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SVOboy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What effect would a 5 psi boost have on a d15 or d16?</TD></TR></TABLE>
About that, when I said this I meant gas mileage wise, but I forgot to say it. So whatta ya think?
About that, when I said this I meant gas mileage wise, but I forgot to say it. So whatta ya think?
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Re: (SVOboy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SVOboy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">About that, when I said this I meant gas mileage wise, but I forgot to say it. So whatta ya think?</TD></TR></TABLE>
It shouldn't negatively effect your mileage too much, but that will depend on your driving style.
It shouldn't negatively effect your mileage too much, but that will depend on your driving style.
#20
Re: swapping d15z1 into 89 Civic LX (SiMateoAko)
Hey i recently dropped in a d15z1 motor into my si ef hatchback. I cannot get it running though. I had it running one day but that was when the OBD-0 dizzy was on upside down. lol. But now it wont start. I switched disturbeters too and it still wont start. Anyone have and suggestions?
#21
Re: swapping d15z1 into 89 Civic LX (SteveB18C1)
You'll be competing for title of slowest swapped ED on H-T.
Actually, I guess people have swapped in HF motors that might give you a crawl for your money......
Actually, I guess people have swapped in HF motors that might give you a crawl for your money......
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Re: swapping d15z1 into 89 Civic LX (SteveB18C1)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SteveB18C1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hey i recently dropped in a d15z1 motor into my si ef hatchback. I cannot get it running though. I had it running one day but that was when the OBD-0 dizzy was on upside down. lol. But now it wont start. I switched disturbeters too and it still wont start. Anyone have and suggestions? </TD></TR></TABLE>
Are you running the P07 ECU? Need a little more info before we can help.
VX motor isn't THAT slow really... I like it better than a DX (DPFI) motor, and its only 16 HP behind the Si motor.
Are you running the P07 ECU? Need a little more info before we can help.
VX motor isn't THAT slow really... I like it better than a DX (DPFI) motor, and its only 16 HP behind the Si motor.
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Re: swapping d15z1 into 89 Civic LX (Bunger)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bunger »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Are you running the P07 ECU? Need a little more info before we can help.
VX motor isn't THAT slow really... I like it better than a DX (DPFI) motor, and its only 16 HP behind the Si motor.</TD></TR></TABLE>
How many mpgs do you get in your 88 crx with the d15z1? Ever done a quarter with it?
VX motor isn't THAT slow really... I like it better than a DX (DPFI) motor, and its only 16 HP behind the Si motor.</TD></TR></TABLE>
How many mpgs do you get in your 88 crx with the d15z1? Ever done a quarter with it?
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Re: swapping d15z1 into 89 Civic LX (SVOboy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SVOboy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How many mpgs do you get in your 88 crx with the d15z1? Ever done a quarter with it?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I haven't gone through a tank of gas yet (seriously), but I'm expecting it to be in the high 50's low 60's. The car only weighs about 1600 lbs. I'll try to get through this tank of gas and let everyone know what my findings are.
I haven't gone through a tank of gas yet (seriously), but I'm expecting it to be in the high 50's low 60's. The car only weighs about 1600 lbs. I'll try to get through this tank of gas and let everyone know what my findings are.
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Jimminee Jilikers Radioactive Man!!!
Hell, if that is the case when I get my hf the engine is SO gone in favor of the d15z1. How amazing. Woo. Time to think about stuff.
Hell, if that is the case when I get my hf the engine is SO gone in favor of the d15z1. How amazing. Woo. Time to think about stuff.