davidcrx89

i bought a rev hard turbo kit with a t3/t04E turbo i want to run between 10 and 15 psi im buying a block to build and i want to know if sleeves are really neccessary i want to use good pistons rings and rods and was going to use a block guard so let me know what you guys think on this subject.

Thanks in advance

PURPLETERROR aka BIGMATT

10-12psi will be fine on stock sleeves, tuning is key. But if you do decide to sleve it, an 84mm bore would be very nice.

davidcrx89

do you recamend any sertain brand of sleeves i hear golden eagles new ones have problems with hot spots

wleach11

Talk to EARL he deals with Benson sleeves. When I'm ready I will go though EARL

red_crx

iTrader: (2)

You don't really need new sleeves, but if your decide to re-sleeve, i recommend Benson sleeves.

Bunger

I've run upwards of 14psi on stock sleeves, first weak point is ring lands, then rods, then sleeves. Tuning is always key, and don't try to run more than 7 psi on a setup just using a boost dependant fuel pressure regulator, ignition timing is KEY! Most car manufactures run .5 -1 degree of ignition retard per LB of boost, ignition retard really lessens the force put on the bottom end.

wleach11

ignition retard really lessens the force put on the bottom end? I thought you retard the timing to prevent detination? How does retarding the timeing lessent the force?

86si

stock sleeves should be ok up to 15lbs. I use Golden Eagle sleeves but benson's are good as well...

Mach69

Your stock sleeves should hold up fine. I mean look at this: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1290943

That is a lot of horsepower on stock sleeves. I am in no way saying that the sleeve strength of an LS is the same as the b16 sleeves, but damn close to each other I would presume.

One thing that will prolong sleeve life: tuning. If you don't tune it right, forget about the sleeves holding up you better start looking for another block.

jdmcoop

stock sleeves can hold to around 400whp with a safe tune, but when you want to go with more hp i would go with ERL. check there website out.
http://www.erlperformance.com

Bunger

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by wleach11 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ignition retard really lessens the force put on the bottom end? I thought you retard the timing to prevent detination? How does retarding the timeing lessent the force?</TD></TR></TABLE>

You do retard the timing to prevent detonation, but also, when you retard the timing you move the time of peak cylinder pressure to a point where the piston is farther down the cylinder. This in turn allows more of the cylinder pressure to be used to turn the crankshaft, rather then side load the piston. This also eases loads on the rod and ring lands.

jdmcoop

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bunger &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You do retard the timing to prevent detonation, but also, when you retard the timing you move the time of peak cylinder pressure to a point where the piston is farther down the cylinder. This in turn allows more of the cylinder pressure to be used to turn the crankshaft, rather then side load the piston. This also eases loads on the rod and ring lands.</TD></TR></TABLE>

talking about the the piston being farther down the cylinder, is that btdc or atdc. i am assuming after but just making sure.

UsDm_Junky

i recomend sleeves for 7-8 pounds but it becomes necessary for 10 and higher

kulangot

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RegatoneSucks &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i recomend sleeves for 7-8 pounds but it becomes necessary for 10 and higher</TD></TR></TABLE>

???

RCautoworks

14 psi on stock sleeves, I would be worried about anything over 6 psi. I'm hearing you can run 8psi on stock sleeves if tuned well.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sleeper-ek &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">stock sleeves can hold to around 400whp with a safe tune</TD></TR></TABLE>

Oh really, and where did you get this information from ?

Professor15

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 90blackcrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">14 psi on stock sleeves, I would be worried about anything over 6 psi. I'm hearing you can run 8psi on stock sleeves if tuned well.

Oh really, and where did you get this information from ? </TD></TR></TABLE>If you have anytime go over to the forced induction area. There are so many boosted cars that are making 400whp+ and 500whp+ on stock sleeves, that its looking like a trend now lol

Bunger

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sleeper-ek &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">talking about the the piston being farther down the cylinder, is that btdc or atdc. i am assuming after but just making sure.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Your assumption is correct, ATDC.

DohcVtecCrx

Why on earth do people talk about psi. Stock bottom ends can blow on 3 psi with improper tuning, and can make 300+++ on 10 psi with the proper turbo and tuning. If you just got the setup then get it on and running then go from there. If it is a fmu dependand kit DO NOT go with more boost. Get some injectors, and fully tunable system before doing anything else. Building your bottom end is to hold more power. It will blow just the same as any stock block if it is not tuned correctly. When your fully tuned, making good hp but are at a point were you cannot make anymore on a stock block, then build it.

michael O

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DohcVtecCrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why on earth do people talk about psi. Stock bottom ends can blow on 3 psi with improper tuning, and can make 300+++ on 10 psi with the proper turbo and tuning. If you just got the setup then get it on and running then go from there. If it is a fmu dependand kit DO NOT go with more boost. Get some injectors, and fully tunable system before doing anything else. Building your bottom end is to hold more power. It will blow just the same as any stock block if it is not tuned correctly. When your fully tuned, making good hp but are at a point were you cannot make anymore on a stock block, then build it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree.

d16vtecx

dont get a block guard if any thing stud the block like theoldone

davidcrx89

stud the block what does that mean and im going to be using 750cc injectors and an s200 hondata the only problem is that the guy that tunes hodata he does good but he doesn't take as much care as if it were his car so i would like to be able to tune it my self i just need to get the programs and learn how is it hard to learn how?

KFBhonda

go to homemadeturbo.com and click on tech projects and look at Block Posting
it is a cheap (yah, not as good as good sleeving) method of block reinforcement.
if it is done right, it probably helps.
give me 20 years and i'll finish my built-for-boost block and see if the posting helped.

boosted_hatch_216

dont stud the block, if your gonna do anything spend the money to sleeve it and use benson sleeves, everyone ive talked to about those sleeves are happy, and its more or less how much horspepower your stock block can hold not how much boost, theres a difference in horsepower form a dsm t25 at 10 psi and a precision sc61 at 10 psi. if your gonna want to keep the car dependable for longer its common sense to spend the money and get the sleeves.

KFBhonda

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted_hatch_216 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> theres a difference in horsepower form a dsm t25 at 10 psi and a precision sc61 at 10 psi. </TD></TR></TABLE>

10 PSI is 10 PSI
the difference in power is a result of the efficiency of the turbo.
lower efficiency equals more heat in the charge which equals less oxygen which means less power.
compressor maps are key

Bunger

I agree, PSI really only gives you a ball park figure as to what kind of abuse the engine sees, but most people are dealing with stock heads and a T3/T04E (or b) turbos... trims are probably all about the same... which is why I normally just give figures in PSI. For the people that know a little more about boost, they probably won't be asking those kinds of question. Tunign is really key to how much abuse a motor can take before it comes apart.