Bi-stage 91 std hb build. d15b2>turbo kit>tune>d16a6 engine build>re-tune
#1
Bi-stage 91 std hb build. d15->2 turbos
First off I am aware that d15b2 is about the worst engine to do anything with. It came in the car that I got for free with a bad valve ($12+gaskets). I looked at it sitting out in the drive for a long time. My background is offroad motorcycle racing and I'm 2010 M.E. grad from Rose-Hulman. I have never had a honda car before and this car is unlikely to ever be plated, at least I dont think I will ever want to pay the insurance on another/this vehicle. I'm really a BMW guy and diesel, small diesels, like the bmw335d.
To this project. I am really going for fun. I am building the setup as cheaply as i think I can.
So to what I am putting together
stage 1
d15b2 stock internals/head
88-91 si intake manifold/mpfi/resister box
PM6-A09 ecu + chipping Kit
TD02u distributor
ebay ex. manifold
ebay t3/t4 turbo
Schwitzer S1 turbo
ebay wastegate
ebay BOV
ebay (GM) 3 bar map
ebay oil filter adapter for turbo oil lines
ebay Gaskets
Homemade Headgasket
Locally sourced hose/conduit/hose clamps/oil fittings
Turboedit/hulog/ecucontrol/freelog for tuning
currently HERE will run boost for a while then goes into limp mode.
Stage 2 ...
build D16a6 for high boost
Rods
vitaras
cleanup ports in head
high strength studs all around
stage3...
RTAWD
stage 4...
grassroots mag. $201X challenge maybe
So I got it started and idle is non existant once the engine is loaded it runs okay and will boost for a while but then goes into limp mode. Yes its got a code but thats for tomorrow. for now I glad the car is running and runs with boost. I took it down my county road about a half mile and drove back and thats about all i drove it so far. I "got on it" a little but didn't go wide open. I was pretty scary waiting for something to go wrong but it seemed okay it went to about 8psi boost. The wastegate opening about made me poop myself. As you can see its just point up going to atm for now so it a straight pipe no muffler right not when that baby opens. It ran 2.5-3psi boost just cruising up to 55mph slowly with little throttle opening. tomorrow more trouble shooting in the idle problem. then i'll try to get my datalogging working
All together
making a head gasket ~3mm thick 8:1-8.2:1
getting that missing hose for my mpfi swap
Basic turbo setup
well the turbo has not been stressed yet so i dunno. the seals are bad in the shwitzer, but the kit is in at the shop i have to go pick it up and pay for it and i dont have much money right now so im holding off till i really get it running smooth to work on that.
As for the trouble shooting I get codes for the crank/cyl/tdc sensors and i have another thread here about not knowing the wiring properly and i still dont. almost none of my distributor colors match up like all the guides say.
CONSOLATION PRIZE. I easily have 8+ pounds of boost in limp mode. if only I could delete limp mode.
i'm using ng63_final_(2).bin with turboedit as my basemap and set the boost options fuel correction to 200% to be safe and my ign. retard to -.7 deg/lb boost.
so right now i need to get this dizzy figured out and maybe that will clean my codes up.
Can somebody get me a picture of the td02u wires going into the plug on the dizzy side. If I had that I could match things but location and not color because I have this
To this project. I am really going for fun. I am building the setup as cheaply as i think I can.
So to what I am putting together
stage 1
d15b2 stock internals/head
88-91 si intake manifold/mpfi/resister box
PM6-A09 ecu + chipping Kit
TD02u distributor
ebay ex. manifold
ebay t3/t4 turbo
Schwitzer S1 turbo
ebay wastegate
ebay BOV
ebay (GM) 3 bar map
ebay oil filter adapter for turbo oil lines
ebay Gaskets
Homemade Headgasket
Locally sourced hose/conduit/hose clamps/oil fittings
Turboedit/hulog/ecucontrol/freelog for tuning
currently HERE will run boost for a while then goes into limp mode.
Stage 2 ...
build D16a6 for high boost
Rods
vitaras
cleanup ports in head
high strength studs all around
stage3...
RTAWD
stage 4...
grassroots mag. $201X challenge maybe
So I got it started and idle is non existant once the engine is loaded it runs okay and will boost for a while but then goes into limp mode. Yes its got a code but thats for tomorrow. for now I glad the car is running and runs with boost. I took it down my county road about a half mile and drove back and thats about all i drove it so far. I "got on it" a little but didn't go wide open. I was pretty scary waiting for something to go wrong but it seemed okay it went to about 8psi boost. The wastegate opening about made me poop myself. As you can see its just point up going to atm for now so it a straight pipe no muffler right not when that baby opens. It ran 2.5-3psi boost just cruising up to 55mph slowly with little throttle opening. tomorrow more trouble shooting in the idle problem. then i'll try to get my datalogging working
All together
making a head gasket ~3mm thick 8:1-8.2:1
getting that missing hose for my mpfi swap
Basic turbo setup
well the turbo has not been stressed yet so i dunno. the seals are bad in the shwitzer, but the kit is in at the shop i have to go pick it up and pay for it and i dont have much money right now so im holding off till i really get it running smooth to work on that.
As for the trouble shooting I get codes for the crank/cyl/tdc sensors and i have another thread here about not knowing the wiring properly and i still dont. almost none of my distributor colors match up like all the guides say.
CONSOLATION PRIZE. I easily have 8+ pounds of boost in limp mode. if only I could delete limp mode.
i'm using ng63_final_(2).bin with turboedit as my basemap and set the boost options fuel correction to 200% to be safe and my ign. retard to -.7 deg/lb boost.
so right now i need to get this dizzy figured out and maybe that will clean my codes up.
Can somebody get me a picture of the td02u wires going into the plug on the dizzy side. If I had that I could match things but location and not color because I have this
Last edited by Bi-stage; 03-25-2011 at 03:48 PM.
#5
Re: Bi-stage 91 std hb build. d15b2>turbo kit>tune>d16a6 engine build>re-tune
I have code 4 and 9 i think. cyl and crank sensor. 9 comes on as soon as I start her up and then I can drive down the road till i hit third gear and it just falls on its face and goes limp. I have prolly burned something out trying to figure out how this dizzy wiring goes. If anybody says its easy just match the colors like all the dpfi->mpfi swaps say I have half a mind to punch them in the face b/c the color of the wires on my 91std harness and my td02u do not match. I have found mpfi swap guides that range from just match colors to have tables of how to connect the wires that dont match and mine is different from them all. I have looked at the honda distributor wiring diagram for what the manual says is a 91 si which I believe had a td02u (not sure) and my dizzy does not have the same color wires as the honda wiring diagram.
nothing really about connecting distributor wires
Plenty of info but my colors are not all the same as this.
I have
distributor wire colors...
blue
blue w/yellow stripe
yellow w/ green stripe
white
creme
creme w/blue stripe
white w/ blue stripe
engine harness colors and my c1 and c2...
c1
c2
orange
orange w/ blue stripe
white w/blue stripe
big white
little white
I take it that the creme color is supposed to be orange
I found my wire pairs using the ohm test for continuity and when I found the Psytronix guide I checked that they were roughly 360 ohms
distributor pairs...........connected to........harness
blue.............................................. ......c1
blue w/yellow stripe................................c2
white............................................. ......Small white
creme............................................. .....orange
white w/blue stripe..................................white w/blue stripe
creme w/blue stripe.................................orange w/blue stripe
and by itself
yellow w/green stripe..............................Big white
its likely I burned out a sensor or something I started it first like this and had the codes then thought I might have it wrong so I swapped polarity on c1 & c2 and i dont think it mattered. I unplugged c1 and c2 completely and it still started. I swapped what i think is the crank sensor and cyl sensor wires and then it didnt start.
from a different angle because I so easily/quickly boost to 8+ lbs I thought maybe the map sensors (stock 1.8bar honda) is getting a spike over 11lbs od boost that it can read and is forcing limp mode. so I spliced in my gm 3 bar sensor, removed my sst27sf512 chip and walked into the office. I placed it in my willem burner and it wont erase. It quit working. But it did mess the chip up so that i get a solid light on the ecu now letting me not to even try to start it. I must have burn and erased 10 maps the day before.
Originally Posted by http://www.fourthgenhatch.net/mpfi.html
...For SOHC engines such as the Si
-Connect the C1 wire to the blue/green wire on the CPS (the sensor is inside the Distributor on a SOHC engine). For doing this I suggest swapping out to the proper Si distributor plug so it is all plug and play and looks clean.
-Connect the C2 wire to the blue/yellow wire on the CPS.
-Connect the C1 wire to the blue/green wire on the CPS (the sensor is inside the Distributor on a SOHC engine). For doing this I suggest swapping out to the proper Si distributor plug so it is all plug and play and looks clean.
-Connect the C2 wire to the blue/yellow wire on the CPS.
Originally Posted by http://www.psytronix.org/xo/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=11
Distributor: Remember, we are using an MPFI OBD0 distributor and MPFI OBD0 ECU for this project. Although the OBD0 distributor is usually mounted differently, It will fit you 5gen d15b2 perfectly. Don't be alarmed. Remove your old distributor and mount the new one. Both the distributor and the harness will have a black/yellow and a blue wire.
Remember, to check if any 2 wires are connected to 1 sensor, you should measure about 360 Ohms of resistance between them.
Providing power to the distributor:
-Connect black/yellow (harness side) to black/yellow ( distributor side)
-Connect blue (harness side) to blue ( distributor side)
There are two white wires on the D16A6 distributor. One is paired with an orange one, and the other is a thicker white wire that is separated from the other 6 on the connector. The thin white and orange wires should measure 360 Ohms between them. The thicker white wire is the Igniter switch.
Igniter switch:
-Connect the thick White wire from the distributor to the Yellow/Green wire of the harness.
Cylinder Position Sensor:
Remember the C1/C2 wires that we ran from the ECU to the engine bay?
-Connect C1 (harness side) to blue/green ( distributor side)
-Connect C2 (harness side) to blue/yellow ( distributor side)
Crank Angle Sensor:
-Connect blue/green (harness side) to orange ( distributor side)
-Connect blue/yellow (harness side) to white ( distributor side)
Top Dead Center sensor:
-Connect orange/blue (harness side) to orange/blue ( distributor side)
-Connect white/blue (harness side) to white/blue ( distributor side)
Remember, to check if any 2 wires are connected to 1 sensor, you should measure about 360 Ohms of resistance between them.
Providing power to the distributor:
-Connect black/yellow (harness side) to black/yellow ( distributor side)
-Connect blue (harness side) to blue ( distributor side)
There are two white wires on the D16A6 distributor. One is paired with an orange one, and the other is a thicker white wire that is separated from the other 6 on the connector. The thin white and orange wires should measure 360 Ohms between them. The thicker white wire is the Igniter switch.
Igniter switch:
-Connect the thick White wire from the distributor to the Yellow/Green wire of the harness.
Cylinder Position Sensor:
Remember the C1/C2 wires that we ran from the ECU to the engine bay?
-Connect C1 (harness side) to blue/green ( distributor side)
-Connect C2 (harness side) to blue/yellow ( distributor side)
Crank Angle Sensor:
-Connect blue/green (harness side) to orange ( distributor side)
-Connect blue/yellow (harness side) to white ( distributor side)
Top Dead Center sensor:
-Connect orange/blue (harness side) to orange/blue ( distributor side)
-Connect white/blue (harness side) to white/blue ( distributor side)
I have
distributor wire colors...
blue
blue w/yellow stripe
yellow w/ green stripe
white
creme
creme w/blue stripe
white w/ blue stripe
engine harness colors and my c1 and c2...
c1
c2
orange
orange w/ blue stripe
white w/blue stripe
big white
little white
I take it that the creme color is supposed to be orange
I found my wire pairs using the ohm test for continuity and when I found the Psytronix guide I checked that they were roughly 360 ohms
distributor pairs...........connected to........harness
blue.............................................. ......c1
blue w/yellow stripe................................c2
white............................................. ......Small white
creme............................................. .....orange
white w/blue stripe..................................white w/blue stripe
creme w/blue stripe.................................orange w/blue stripe
and by itself
yellow w/green stripe..............................Big white
its likely I burned out a sensor or something I started it first like this and had the codes then thought I might have it wrong so I swapped polarity on c1 & c2 and i dont think it mattered. I unplugged c1 and c2 completely and it still started. I swapped what i think is the crank sensor and cyl sensor wires and then it didnt start.
from a different angle because I so easily/quickly boost to 8+ lbs I thought maybe the map sensors (stock 1.8bar honda) is getting a spike over 11lbs od boost that it can read and is forcing limp mode. so I spliced in my gm 3 bar sensor, removed my sst27sf512 chip and walked into the office. I placed it in my willem burner and it wont erase. It quit working. But it did mess the chip up so that i get a solid light on the ecu now letting me not to even try to start it. I must have burn and erased 10 maps the day before.
Last edited by Bi-stage; 03-24-2011 at 07:05 PM.
#6
Re: Bi-stage 91 std hb build. d15b2>turbo kit>tune>d16a6 engine build>re-tune
well I am fairly sure I got the chip (sst27sf512) to erase with the willem and i got it to burn some to the chip but it wasnt a good burn. the willem software (97ja) showed the chip was not blank at this point and i was able to (i think) fully erase the chip at least the willem software says its blank on a blank test and after a read i save the buffer and that file is blank
the other new development is that i believe the water pump started to leak. I looked around the head with a trouble light and I can only see the water dripping from where the gear is inside the plastic cover on down.
Question. How much air usually comes out of the head vent on d series. With what I am getting I assume that my rings are bad and I am getting blow by. Its just a solid stream of air coming out of head vent.
the other new development is that i believe the water pump started to leak. I looked around the head with a trouble light and I can only see the water dripping from where the gear is inside the plastic cover on down.
Question. How much air usually comes out of the head vent on d series. With what I am getting I assume that my rings are bad and I am getting blow by. Its just a solid stream of air coming out of head vent.
Last edited by Bi-stage; 03-24-2011 at 07:08 PM.
#7
Re: Bi-stage 91 std hb build. d15b2>turbo kit>tune>d16a6 engine build>re-tune
today i checked more wiring and hooked my timing light up as a tachometer to really see where it is spooled at and what rpm the car cruises at in top gear.
spooled to 8 lbs wich is my limit right now by 2300 rpm during wot accel
55mph is 3700-3800rpm
with the charge piping unhooked I drove the engine harder and after that it idled better. I will take the idle control valve off and clean that tomorrow.
spooled to 8 lbs wich is my limit right now by 2300 rpm during wot accel
55mph is 3700-3800rpm
with the charge piping unhooked I drove the engine harder and after that it idled better. I will take the idle control valve off and clean that tomorrow.
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#8
Re: Bi-stage 91 std hb build. d15b2>turbo kit>tune>d16a6 engine build>re-tune
Have a new job and the car is going back into the garage. Small turbo is off and to a the local turbo workshop to get rebuild. raidiator that was on when the headgasket blew crasked the plastic tank. plan to move the raidiator to the rear hatch lid. since i'll mostly drive this car offroad anyway the raidiator to too low and in a danger area in the front anyway, plus i can run just about any raidiator when i put it in the back.
Plan to order another new/used distributor and continue debugging. gotta get out of limp mode. then i'll post a vid. hope the mic on my phone can capture the turbo spool sound
i'm glad i have this thread b/c i could even remember where i was in the build
Plan to order another new/used distributor and continue debugging. gotta get out of limp mode. then i'll post a vid. hope the mic on my phone can capture the turbo spool sound
i'm glad i have this thread b/c i could even remember where i was in the build
#9
Re: Bi-stage 91 std hb build. d15b2>turbo kit>tune>d16a6 engine build>re-tune
Hmm just to document my build im going to add my update.
I'm all done with college for now and have a career now so I bought some parts and got this project dusted off and i made progress over the weekend.
bought:
AFR gauge
NEW DIZZY
What I did so far. I pulled the car back into the garage looked over everything. Looked at the documentation in the car and saw in the log book I had just sat some of the part in place during storage. I gave it a once over and tightened up the parts I found loose. Then it wouldnt start. Old bad gas. I loosen the rail line and pumped the bad gas out. Fired up and drove around the building a little and verified it ran the same as last time I worked on it.
Then I proceeded to swap to the new dizzy. The new dizzy has proper color wires and went on without a hitch and fixed all the error code/limp mode problems. The old dizzy is just some bastard part that has off color wires and is prolly bad anyway. with the new dizzy there was no doubt about what plugged in where.
The radiator is broken and I plan to move the the radiator to the rear window. Free up that space for an intercooler.
I'm all done with college for now and have a career now so I bought some parts and got this project dusted off and i made progress over the weekend.
bought:
AFR gauge
NEW DIZZY
What I did so far. I pulled the car back into the garage looked over everything. Looked at the documentation in the car and saw in the log book I had just sat some of the part in place during storage. I gave it a once over and tightened up the parts I found loose. Then it wouldnt start. Old bad gas. I loosen the rail line and pumped the bad gas out. Fired up and drove around the building a little and verified it ran the same as last time I worked on it.
Then I proceeded to swap to the new dizzy. The new dizzy has proper color wires and went on without a hitch and fixed all the error code/limp mode problems. The old dizzy is just some bastard part that has off color wires and is prolly bad anyway. with the new dizzy there was no doubt about what plugged in where.
The radiator is broken and I plan to move the the radiator to the rear window. Free up that space for an intercooler.
#10
I like the tuna here
Re: Bi-stage 91 std hb build. d15b2>turbo kit>tune>d16a6 engine build>re-tune
I really like the relocated intake piping, and I'm in for seeing the reliability of the DIY headgasket. What materials did you use for the gasket and for the areas around the combustion chambers?
#11
Re: Bi-stage 91 std hb build. d15b2>turbo kit>tune>d16a6 engine build>re-tune
I made a order for a cheap set of gauges
Picture of the old vs new dizzy not sure the tale is really told on how different the wire colors are.
Side projects
Picture of the old vs new dizzy not sure the tale is really told on how different the wire colors are.
Side projects
#12
Re: Bi-stage 91 std hb build. d15b2>turbo kit>tune>d16a6 engine build>re-tune
wtfff dude your crazy i never knew you could make a headgasket at home tumbs up for your home made stuff and creativity
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