gRim06

well i haven't had many problems lately so no one has heard from me but i just cleaned up my ZC since its been sitting for a year and i got everything swapped,,,,while the engine was out i did all the distributor wiring and made sure i matched all the wires accordingly but for some reasong it doesnt seem as though im getting spark! (although i cant see the spark like normally i can definatly feel it shocking me when i tough it.)

the gas hand is on empty but there is still enough to start...the only way im sure of that is that there is a pressure gauge where the service port is located reading a lil above 35 psi.

im not throwing any codes what-so-ever so no clues there...

i've taken out my y7 before to change the clutch and i had no problem then...(so its not like im completely new to this)the only difference is the distibutor wiring.

when i got the motor is was in my 88 hf....im not sure but i think that the wiring harness on that car has a matching dizzy plug...i didnt see any evidence of splicing anyway. but thats where i got every thing to swap it.

Any help will be appreciated......WHERE ARE YOU JILICRX??????

jlicrx

does the engine harness match the car model? i.e. HF harness on HF car, Si harness on Si car?

are you sure that the 2 white wires at the distributor connector are in the correct locations?

gRim06

Yes and yes, i switched the pins to make sure and it threw a CEL. i switched them back and no CEL.

the Si has its original si harness...

gRim06

well i've had a few people lookin at it and no one has a clue.

it turns over fine and after a few seconds of trying to start it, it does fire acouple of times but just doesn't follow through.

i've check for spark while its turning over and i can physically feel the voltage at each of the wires but you cant see the high voltage spark like you should...seems like its weak.

gRim06

Seriously though....this is pissin me off. i've looked at everything i can think of.

The F'd up part is that im in school and gotten through electrical and engine performance 1 with straight A's....and im confident in my ability to diagnose no start conditions as well as how an engine is working and what it needs to run better; but this thing is throwing me and everyone i know is through a loop...

this engine was in an 88 crx hf when i got it. i drove it and worked on it for a year before i wrecked the crx....i smashed the front drivers side into a big van's rear bumper,

The mounting bracket on the drivers side was pushed back about 1 and half or 2 inches. since that mount is the only one connected to the engine side...the other three connected to the trans. and putting alot of strain on the drivetrain.

unfortunately i had to drive it home like it was(since i was able to get it started) and it ran like absolute crap. if i hadn't...it would have ended up in the pigs lockup yard.

my house was litteraly less than a quarter mile away...downhill at that.

it quit running right as i pulled it in the drive way.

i pulled it out some months later and its been sitting for the last 2 years intact.

i pulled the clutch off when i got my 91 Si and even though it had horribly uneven wear spots from drivin' it while wrecked...it still worked fine....now it looks like nothin happened when i put it back on the ZC.

anyway, i 've inspected the motor recently, used a socket wrench to turn the crank over repeadily, over and over observing how the inner workings sounded and it was fine. i cleaned up everything...especially the glass from the headlight that flew into the crank since the TB cover was mostly removed.

since then i've preppared it carefully for re-swapping into my 91 Si.

while the engine was out, and i was waiting for intake and exhaust gaskets, i did all the wiring for the dizzy and other harness repairs very carefully, knowing ahead of time that if i spliced the wrong wires together that it wouldn't work.

all the way through i made sure i took my time.

at this point, knowing that:

battery has proper voltage
engine turns with proper timing
fuel pressure is there
spark is there but MAY be week(i can't see the sparks from each plug wire but i can feel something with my hand)
compression is great...185 PSI
all vacuum lines are connected properly
all electrical connectors are connected in proper spots with the exeption of the 2 pin connector that goes to the black thing on the backside of the intake right beside the IACV...which the ZC intake mani. has the brake booster vacuum line in that spot....

i dont know what that thing does but it is the only thing that the HF harness that was originally mated with the ZC didn't have.

would the D16a1 mani. have this? do i need it? what is it?

miguey310

change the ground

gRim06

engine ground? they're all fine, nice and tight, they all worked on the y7 that was in the car 2 weeks ago.

if there was a ground issue would the main relay or something make a bunch a clicking noise?

jlicrx

the 89-91 Si D16A6 has a Fast Idle Control Valve on the back of the intake manifold - the DOHC ZC doesn't have a FICV - the connector for the FICV is a 2-wire connector with black with yellow stripe and blue wires - the connector is not used with the Si engine harness on the DOHC ZC

the HF engine harness also has a connector that isn't used on the DOHC ZC - it is the connector for the EGR lift valve - it is a 3-wire connector with yellow with white stripe, green with white stripe and yellow wires

kojack_0

alrighty. this type of shizz happened to me on the way to work.

assuming you have a ZC distributor (extremely rare), all wires are at the right place.

first buy the following if you dont have it already:
89-91 CRX SI cap & rotor.
86-89 Integra spark plug wires.
89-91 CRX SI spark plugs, NGK BCPR6E-11.
88-91 Civic/CRX SI ecu, preferrably a JDM OBD0 PM7 (original ecu of DOHC ZCs) .
89-91 CRX SI igniter. ***very important***

igniters on ZCs go bad quite faster than other d15/6s.

install for the ignitor is really easy, IF distributor is off the motor.

finally, make sure the TIMING is right on the plug wires, honestly when i changed mines i swear i thought it wasnt the timing, changed it and it fired like a lightning storm.

brownsEF

try another cam position sensor that happend to me

stickman78114

try and borrow a dizzy from an si crx that's running. also make sure the cap n rotor are in good shape. it's prolly the dizzy not gettin enough power. did you sauder the dizzy wiring?

gRim06

Of course i SOLDERED all the wires together in the proper fashion with all the heat-shrink and harness tubing and plenty of electrical tape to protect it all.

I've moved terminal pins around starting with the two white ones but i always throw CELs. I took my time when performing the only real modifications that must be made in order to run the ZC, since i had plenty of time, being on spring break from school and having to wait over the weekend for the gaskets i needed from felpro anyway...

Would a single cam distibutor even fit the DOHC ZC? If so i would be all for trying it...

I've got the y7 with all the a6 shiznit on it that just came out of the car...



Quote: try another cam position sensor that happend to me

i will if its not the igniter...

Quote: alrighty. this type of shizz happened to me on the way to work.

assuming you have a ZC distributor (extremely rare), all wires are at the right place.

first buy the following if you dont have it already:
89-91 CRX SI cap & rotor.
86-89 Integra spark plug wires.
89-91 CRX SI spark plugs, NGK BCPR6E-11.
88-91 Civic/CRX SI ecu, preferrably a JDM OBD0 PM7 (original ecu of DOHC ZCs) .
89-91 CRX SI igniter. ***very important***

igniters on ZCs go bad quite faster than other d15/6s.

install for the ignitor is really easy, IF distributor is off the motor.

finally, make sure the TIMING is right on the plug wires, honestly when i changed mines i swear i thought it wasnt the timing, changed it and it fired like a lightning storm.

By "TIMING on the plug wires" you mean to make sure the spark plug wires come from the cap terminals to the proper cylinders in the proper firing order? Yes...as long as i remembered correctly that the number one cyl. plug wire goes to the terminal at the top of the cap and rotates forward (to the right if your looking straight at the cap) to the #3 then 4, 2 cyl. position as most L4s are.



It has 89 teg NGK plugs and wires, the wires weren't new when i got the car almost 4 years ago(which i only drove it the first yr. 'till i wrecked it) and i had just changed out the cheap plat. plugs for standard ngk vpowers... the plugs are still brand new didn't even put any more than 5k miles on em. i cleaned them up anyway.. just like everything else on it.

The ecu is pg7 89 teg which is what i've head is preferred to just using the pm6 from the Si when a JDM pm7 is not available...

The cap and rotor are brand new from the 89 teg...but apparently there was a loose piece of metal that really didn't seem to make a difference before hand, it wasnt on the the firing terminals all that was fine...the old cap that was on it didn't have that piece in it either the old rotor was in really bad shape and was fouling out the spark. that was the only ignition problem i ever had with the ZC in the 88Hf. it ran like a champ after that cap and rotor...i had change the plugs just before that and got it to start and got it home...the next day when i got to work, i broke down on the first pizza delivery i tried to make in it.

anyway that piece of metal jammed up the rotor inside the cap was causing the engine to stop turning...when i first tried to start it and after about 8 tries it stop turning over altogether. i grabbed my wrench and turn the crank over about have way and it stop and wouldn't turn over as hard as i pushed, i turn it back the other way and it stops in the same spot...i thought something was F'''d up inside the engine. Got to lookin at it the next day i tried to crank it and to my surprise, although rough at first(due to finally breaks a little piece of the ridge that runs across the diameter of the rotor) if begins to crank over...i get a little bit of firing when i crank it for 10-15 seconds, it gets a bit warm inside and gets hot enough to burn some.

when i was looking at the ignition it more intensly, i had the cap off and saw the broken pieces inside...i've tried other good caps already....

as for the ignitor...if i cant try my single cam distributor, but knowing its working, i could take the ignitor out of it and see if it works.

i was planning on getting the distributor off of my buddy's 89 teg and trying it, since its the closest thing to a usdm zc ignition unit...

how can i tell if my distributor is the original ZC?

If it was the cam angle sensor, woulnd't it throw a CEL?

brownsEF

jlicrx

no, won't fit

the sensor on the end of the exhaust camshaft is the CYLinder position sensor - if it was bad, which would be extremely rare, you would get a CEL and a code 9, but the engine would still start

not true, but even if it was, a bad igniter will give you a CEL and code 15 - could be a bad coil which doesn't cause a CEL

that is correct - looking at the pictures, your plug wires appear to be correct - see picture below

are you sure it is 88-89 and not 86-87 - 86-87 won't work - 88-89 has a smooth top cover and the 86-87 has a stamped 'X' across the full top of the cover - number should be 37820-PG7-A0#

the OBD0 JDM DOHC ZC uses the exact same distributor as the USDM 88-89 Integra D16A1 - try your buddy's distributor

the correct distributor is a TD03U - should be stamped into the side of one of the attaching arms

86-87 PG7:



88-89 PG7:



the distributor cap has a small circle with the letter 'C' in it next to the terminal that the #1 spark plug wires goes to - like this: (this is TD03U cap)



the OEM Honda D16A6 distributor cap does not fit on the TD03U distributor (most aftermarket D16A6 caps will work) - the locating tab, which is next to the attaching hole at the lower left in this picture, is in a different location on the D16A6

gRim06

Really?...i've seen this and similar diagrams about 100 times now.

Quoted: are you sure it is 88-89 and not 86-87 - 86-87 won't work - 88-89 has a smooth top cover and the 86-87 has a stamped 'X' across the full top of the cover - number should be 37820-PG7-A0#

yep i got it soon after i bought the 88HF and learned that was running the pm6 and i found after researching that the 88-89 and ONLY the 88-89 would be a more proper ecu for the ZC.



Quoted: the distributor cap has a small circle with the letter 'C' in it next to the terminal that the #1 spark plug wires goes to - like this: (this is TD03U cap)



Right, but because those aftermarket replacement caps don't have that little C by the No. 1 terminal i didnt have that to go by...but i've messed with this engine enough to know No. 1 was at the top.

i wish my pg7 was lookin as good as the one in ur pic jilicrx...

im gonna get that distributor from my buddys 1st gen today or tomorrow and try it out.

gRim06

Ok well my buddy's car has been sitting for a long time and is real dusty and dirty. he said he hadn't had any problems with the engine before he parked it(said the brakes had lots of problems).

any, its doin the same thing, i can't help but think that theres no way the coil could be out on both of these, and i don't want to drop the cash on a new one unless i have to.

both + and - terminals on the coil have voltage but the secondary winding to + side didn't pick up any resistance and my manual for crx spec is between 9 and 14 thousand Ohms. my other distributor did the same...

i checked the 50a fuse too...
is there a way to post video?

jlicrx

do you have the ground wire from the engine harness connected at the thermostat housing? when you turn the ignition on, does the Check Engine Light come on for 2 seconds and then go off?

alx_90ef

i tired to start mine today and it just cranked.

my friend told me to try clamping the si dizzy since it has a built in CMP

so i did it and it turned one!!!

****EN CMP!~!!!

did you try that already?

gRim06

yep the wire from harness to housing as well as tranny to chassis and engine to chassis are there and snug too.

the light comes on for 2 secs while the pump is running then both shut off.

stickman78114

im stoooopid took the cap off ithe rotor had fallen off and the spark was just jumping randomly to the wires so i was getting spark just not at the right time

thanks for all the help you guys offered!!
wisht there was a honda tech for everything

stickman78114

also, i havent upgraded passed the si ecu but i love the dohc zc already! feels much torquier downlow. i cnt wait to feel it w/ the teg ecu. coming soon!
going to race my bros 89 si hatch w/ a z6, has a short ram, and i forgot what kinda headers, to stock exhaust.
i have cold air, and an si exhaust mani frm the z6 port mached to the zc. stock pipe minus the cat and muffler

should be a cool comparison. gonna try n post a vid. its new to me so im hyped about it

alx_90ef

your guna beat him for sure.

gRim06

Those last two posts have no material pertaining to the topic at hand.

alx_90ef...your sig. has a defect...DOHC...not DualOverCamHead.

how would i test the CMP? other than replacing with another...just ohm it?

i want to pull the car up to school so i can put it on the DSO...

gRim06

well apparently i fumbled on the resistance testing yesterday....i bought a brand new coil today and before i took anything apart...i ohm the secondary winding once again and i got 11.9 kOhm on both of the old ones and this is also what the new coil tested at.

i went ahead and tried it anyway before i took it back to orielly.

this didn't help...so now i have to assume that the spark is adequette, or however you spell that...and i also stuck an LED injector pulse tester in my injector plugs to make sure there was a pulse width...

so i still have no idea.

mynameisMUDD

bump