91 EF Hatch, B20 Vtec code 17

 
Old 03-11-2019, 01:05 PM
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Default 91 EF Hatch, B20 Vtec code 17

Hi All,

Getting code 17 check engine light flash up.

I have a b20 vtec (details in signature) which originally came with the electronic VSS but wasn't connected to anything as my cluster uses the cable type. I bought a new mechanical VSS and installed and my gauge is displaying the correct mph. However the car is very slow and limited to 5k rpm (this is where the 2 step is configured). And of course also getting 1 long and 7 short flashes of the check engine light.

I double checked continuity between the gauge cluster VSS signal and b10 wire on my obd1 chipped p28 ECU and all checks out.

Also to throw in here that I removed the stock DX cluster and replaced with a EURO 88-91 Civic EDM 1.6i-VT EE9 (Wanted the kmph and this tach display 9k rpm)



Question:

1. My theory is that the speed pulsar from my gauge cluster is not sending the correct signal to the ECU? The car believes it is at a stop and therefore has no vtec and only revs to 2 step limit.
I have done some research and read that the obd1 ECU is looking for a 12V pulses and the cable type on the gauge cluster simply provides a ground signal that the obd0 ECU looks for, does this sound correct?
Honda VSS Engineering Analysis

Also haven't yet tried putting back the old electronic vss and checking if the issue persists, I realize I will lose the speedo in the gauge cluster doing this but would rather have the car working right then have speedo working.
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Old 03-12-2019, 12:28 PM
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Default Re: 91 EF Hatch, B20 Vtec code 17

I'd like to hear what comes of this, as I also have an EDM cluster I have yet to try to install. FYI there's no such thing as an 88-91 cluster (nit picking here sorry) there are 88-89 and 90-91. Gotta say I'm digging your setup for your hatch, of course it is very similar to mine so I would.

"I have done some research and read that the obd1 ECU is looking for a 12V pulses and the cable type on the gauge cluster simply provides a ground signal that the obd0 ECU looks for, does this sound correct?"
Unless the euro cluster sends out a different signal than the USDM versions do I think this theory is wrong. Never heard of anyone with an OBD1 conversion on these cars needing to mess with the cluster at all.
I read that info on the VSS engineering analysis and I think that they where specifically trying to run a P30 ecu in stock form. Not common for a swapped car and obviously comes with some extra headaches.
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Old 03-12-2019, 01:11 PM
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Default Re: 91 EF Hatch, B20 Vtec code 17

Actually on further research it was found that the hack to add the resistor ended up working for a while for one person but in the end they also ended up again with code 17 with the resistor in place. Seems his issue was a bad solder joint.

https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-...-880736/page4/

I now double checking all my wiring again as my car's wiring has been a mess from the beginning so would make sense.
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Old 03-12-2019, 02:18 PM
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Default Re: 91 EF Hatch, B20 Vtec code 17

So when did the ecu stop reading VSS correctly, when you changed the VSS to mechanical, or when you swapped the cluster? Or did you do both at the same time?
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Old 03-12-2019, 04:11 PM
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Default Re: 91 EF Hatch, B20 Vtec code 17

Originally Posted by 2x0 View Post
So when did the ecu stop reading VSS correctly, when you changed the VSS to mechanical, or when you swapped the cluster? Or did you do both at the same time?
Actually i think the issue happened when I swapped my ECU but is really hard to tell as I have recently swapped to cable VSS, gauge cluster, ECU and obd1 harness adapter.

I have just now jacked up the car and connected a multi meter to b10 on ECU and the other end to ground. When spinning the wheels I am not seeing any volts at all. I also checked before the obd1 harness adapter and also at the gauge cluster itself. So either the sensor on the gauge cluster is bad or still could be wiring. On a write up I found for the Euro gauge cluster swap it says that the VSS signal should be coming from A2 in the gauge harness. http://www.angelfire.com/ca/DrOhm/SiRcluster.html Wondering if that is correct or not, all my other gauges such as fuel, coolant temp etc are working fine just no VSS signal.



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Old 03-12-2019, 06:34 PM
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Default Re: 91 EF Hatch, B20 Vtec code 17

I took the cluster out and checked the speed pulsar as per the service manual. I don't get any continuity at all when turning the speed pulsar, manual says it should occur 4 times in 1 rotation.

I then decided to check my old cluster in hopes I could just swap out the speed pulsar, but when I tested this as well it too showed no continuity at all.

Looks like for now I am going to re-install the electronic VSS and run new wires to the ecu. Shame I won't have speedo. The only other advantage I can see is that getting new speedo cables in the future is going to get more difficult so l will most likely either get a s2k or Civic Si cluster.
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Old 03-13-2019, 07:28 AM
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Default Re: 91 EF Hatch, B20 Vtec code 17

I saw this after I bought my cluster ....maybe it is a solution for you with your orginal cluster.
Store | omnipowerusa.com
.....I know it says 8k but it looks like it reads up to 11k!
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Old 03-13-2019, 07:55 AM
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Default Re: 91 EF Hatch, B20 Vtec code 17

Originally Posted by Creator View Post
I saw this after I bought my cluster ....maybe it is a solution for you with your orginal cluster.
Store | omnipowerusa.com
.....I know it says 8k but it looks like it reads up to 11k!
Thanks for the suggestion but I believe omni power only do tachs, and my tach works fine so does the speedo but it is not sending the pulse to the ecu.

I didn't realize at the time but I think I should of asked the Chip Tuner to disable VSS when I bought my new ECU, I would of lost 2 step but not a big deal.

I am going to re-connect the electronic vss and re-wire this morning, prefer working car then working speedo.
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Old 03-13-2019, 12:02 PM
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Default Re: 91 EF Hatch, B20 Vtec code 17

So installed and re-wired up the electronic/trans mounted VSS and still the same issue.

Really stumped on this one. I have emailed the person I bought the ECU from hoping they may have experienced something similar but at the moment really at a loss as to why I can't get this thing running right.
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Old 03-13-2019, 01:07 PM
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Default Re: 91 EF Hatch, B20 Vtec code 17

I'm leaning towards the gauge cluster being the issue.
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:59 AM
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Default Re: 91 EF Hatch, B20 Vtec code 17

Can't be the gauge cluster because it is not part of the equation anymore. With the electronic VSS installed the wire runs directly to the ECU instead of coming from the gauge cluster.

I spoke to the seller where I bought the chipped P28 and he was asking for a video of the code 17. I had already cleared it so took the car out for a drive this morning to get the code back. Well to my surprise I had VTEC. I did clean the electronic vss connector yesterday as some signs of corrosion so that seems to of helped some.

The car still feels extremely slow, and after 10 more mins of driving back comes code 17. This time even with the code I can rev past 2 step settings of 5k and hit vtec at 5.2k but something still isn't right as it feels like timing is retarded a lot.

Just to confirm this is a video of the code I am getting, it is 17 correct and not something like 10 and 7?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kix...ew?usp=sharing
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Old 03-15-2019, 07:46 PM
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Default Re: 91 EF Hatch, B20 Vtec code 17

I think I actually have 2 separate issues.

1. Code 17, VSS
However now even though I get this code I can rev the car past the 2 step limit of 5k and hit vtec at 5.5k rpms.
I have a feeling either the contacts are too corroded on the connector to the VSS so I am going to replace the connector.


2. Something fuel related.
I took the car out for a longer drive today and at times the car felt ok...ish but mostly same symptoms of being slow, struggling to get to redline even though VTEC works now. I was not far from home when the car started to lose all power, the harder I stepped on the gas the more it would slow down. Changed down a gear and that didn't really help either. It stumbled like it was running out of gas. Eventually it stalled completely but when I turned it back on it felt ok...ish again and I got it home.
I am not going to go into too much further details about this issue as completely different issue as to what this thread is started for.
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Old 03-27-2019, 08:45 PM
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Default Re: 91 EF Hatch, B20 Vtec code 17

Sorry for late reply but I got it mostly sorted.

I resolved the code 17 by going back to the electronic VSS, as I mentioned no longer have working speedo but for the moment am just using my phone GPS for that. Also this isn't a daily.

Second issue happened to be 2 clogged injectors. Rigged up a little home made cleaning system after watching some YT videos and manged to get them working again. I will definitely get them professionally cleaned in the future but for now they seem good.

Thanks for all the assistance
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Old 03-28-2019, 03:21 AM
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Default Re: 91 EF Hatch, B20 Vtec code 17

Originally Posted by LuckyStrike90 View Post
Sorry for late reply but I got it mostly sorted.

I resolved the code 17 by going back to the electronic VSS, as I mentioned no longer have working speedo but for the moment am just using my phone GPS for that. Also this isn't a daily.

Second issue happened to be 2 clogged injectors. Rigged up a little home made cleaning system after watching some YT videos and manged to get them working again. I will definitely get them professionally cleaned in the future but for now they seem good.

Thanks for all the assistance
Glad you got it sorted. So when you first went back to electronic VSS and were still having the issue, it was because the contacts were corroded?
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Old 03-28-2019, 07:15 AM
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Default Re: 91 EF Hatch, B20 Vtec code 17

Originally Posted by 2x0 View Post
Glad you got it sorted. So when you first went back to electronic VSS and were still having the issue, it was because the contacts were corroded?
No I only had the code when I was using the cable VSS, as soon as I put the electonic VSS back in, I was able to rev past the 2 step limit set at 5k.
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Old 03-28-2019, 07:38 AM
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Default Re: 91 EF Hatch, B20 Vtec code 17

Nice catch, not easy to find I'm sure. Funny enough I just had my injectors cleaned, South Bay Injectors did a great job and it was pretty quick.
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Old 03-28-2019, 07:47 AM
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Default Re: 91 EF Hatch, B20 Vtec code 17

You are correct Creator, I went to hell and back working out they were clogged. The injectors were still ticking when putting a long screw driver to them so to me they sounded fine. It was only after swapping the injectors to different cylinders and the misfire changed to those cylinders that I new they were clogged.

I am south of the border, down Mexico way so will need to find someone down here. Can I ask how much USD was it roughly for the clean?
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Old 03-28-2019, 08:23 AM
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Default Re: 91 EF Hatch, B20 Vtec code 17

I sent mine to FIC, I believe it was $100 for four injectors. They do ultrasonic, then flow test and send a report showing flow before and after for each injector.

Make sure to get all 4 done, even if only 2 seem to be problematic.
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