cityofcaterpillars

So here's my setup
z6 block
y8 head
z6 cam and gear
b7 dizzy

I'm having 2 problems.
First my ignition timing marks don't line up. The mechanical timing is right on. I have the dizzy turned all the way to the firewall right now and it's running good but it's no where near the timing marks. My one worry is that the crank pulley may be off a y8. When I bought the motor is was torn down and the guy told me it was a complete Z6. Turns out the bottom end was but the head was a Y8

Second problem is that when I give it more than 50% throttle the temp gauge goes down as the RPM's go up. It goes back down when I let off the gas. I replaced the temp sensor in the thermostat housing. One thing I can think is that I used the thermostat from my D15 when I did my swap

mk378

Take #1 spark plug out and probe in the cylinder to find where the piston really reaches the top. Compare to mark on crank pulley.

You do know that the ECU test jumper needs to be in place when setting timing with a timing light.

Make sure the cooling system is purged of air. You should get steady hot air from the heater. The sensor on the thermostat housing only turns the fan on, it doesn't control the gauge.

cityofcaterpillars

Yep I found TDC with a coat hanger and it matches the TDC mark on the pulley. Possibly the B7 dizzy is the problem?

I do know about the jumping the ECU

Cooling system is purged. I'll try actually replacing the right sensor maybe that will fix that

24TEN

iTrader: (2)

Which ECU are you using?

Aside from the main pulley there's two other issues I can think of that might be giving you your issues. It's possible that you have a Y8 cam in there. The other issue I can think of seemed to still be debated even though there was proof provided. One of the sensors inside the distributor is 180* out when comparing the VTEC and non VTEC distributors. I'll see if I can find the thread if you want to read it (hope pics still work).

EDIT:
Here's the link about the distributor difference, I don't think it's part of your issue FWIW:

http://www.d-series.org/forums/gener...ge=4&_k=81ps0i

cityofcaterpillars

it's a stock p28 ecu. The cam is def a Z6. I have a y8 one in but got frustrated with the timing so I swapped it out for a Z6 one.

I read that article a while ago. I was trying to swap the guts from a z6 dizzy into a y8 dizzy but some of the screws on the z6 were stripping out. Im gonna try again later tonight to get them lose and swap everything over and see if that helps

cityofcaterpillars

I fixed the temp drop problem by replacing the sensors so that's one down

I swapped my z6 dizzy guts into the y8 dizzy housing. It did get me closer to the timing marks but not quiet there. I can get it on the mark to the right of the red line but that's clocked all the way to the firewall again. It's running fine so yeah I don't know what else I can do

OxDseries

You should be able to get the right timing, I have a Y8 head, Y7 block, Z6 Crankshaft, Y8 piston and no issue timing the engine.... I have mixed lots of parts...

TomCat39

I wonder if you swapped the Z6 cam gear for the Y8 cam gear if that 4.75 degree variance would let you get to the ignition timing marks more towards the middle instead of just close to the marks fully cranked to the firewall?

cityofcaterpillars

Wouldn't throw off my mechanical timing since I'm using a Z6 cam?

And now I'm having trouble with the vtec solenoid. I wired it all up and keep getting code 21. I swapped in another solenoid and same thing. Cannot figure out for the life of me what the problem is.

TomCat39

It would shift your mechanical timing 4.75 degrees. Just wondering if that would work out right for the ignition timing since the internal cam sensor of the distributor would also be shifted the 4.75 degrees.

I am not familiar with how many degrees from one end of the dizzy setting to the other is. If it's only the equivalent of 2 degrees, then 4.75 dedgree shift is waaay too much. But if on the other hand it's over 5 degrees, it might just put you closer to center line for ignition timing, especially being at the extreme firewall end you are still off about 2 degrees currently.

cityofcaterpillars

I can give that a shot after work today. How bad is it that being off the small amount that I am? The car runs great and doesn't seem to be having any issues.

TomCat39

If it's retarded the 2 degrees, there is zero issue at all, just a touch less performance. Quite often the fix to a heavy carbon motor is to retard the ignition timing a touch. Sacrifice a little performance for a more stable engine. Most people won't even notice the performance difference.

If it's advanced 2 degrees, it can promote detonation under severe loads at high RPM (hill climbing especially) and cause you to need higher octane. You might notice pinging when hill climbing etc. 2 degrees may not be enough to cause it, but it is possible depending on the carbon build up in the engine.

cityofcaterpillars

Ok so basically I have it advanced 2*. I'm running 91 octane and haven't heard any gripes from the motor.

If I used a adjustable cam gear would I need at advance or retard the timing in order to get the ignition timing on. Also what degree would you recommend me setting the gear at to start with.

TomCat39

The cam is only going to shift half a tooth based on the cam gear change. I would rotate the cam in the retard direction the half tooth as you are advanced at the moment.

When I get home I will look at my AEM cam gear to verify which direction is retarding as I don't remember off the top of my head. You will just be rotating the gear a half tooth to mesh with the timing belt. I just don't remember if it should be CCW or CW.

Your 91 octane is allowing you the advancement without issue.

cityofcaterpillars

I appreciate it. So I assume you're thinking my mechanical timing may be off? I'd be retarding it 7.75* for the half tooth I believe

TomCat39

It's 4.75 degrees for half a tooth.

How to mechanically time a mini me swap/ other mini me info - D-series.org

cityofcaterpillars

sorry 4.75* is what I meant. It's not a mini be though. The block is a D16. That's why I said about it throwing off the mechanical timing because really I have a d16z6.

TomCat39

Yeah, I get that. Just your ignition timing is off, so figured it doesn't hurt to see if shifting the mechanical timing 4.75 degrees is your fix. Maybe the block or head or both were milled at some point? Or maybe the head gasket is thinner? Who knows, but what we do know is your timing is out just a little bit and we know an easy solution to adjust half a tooth since Honda indexed the gears differently by 4.75 degrees.

cityofcaterpillars

Ok gotcha. Just wanted to clarify

TomCat39

Just pulled out my AEM adjustable cam gear and if I spin the cam clockwise, it says I'm retarding it. If I spin the cam counter clockwise it says I'm advancing it.

So for you half a tooth attempt, I would first do TDC for all the marks, crank gear and the cam gear. Then loosen the belt and slide it off the cam gear. Put the other cam gear on (Y8) and bring the belt up to the gear.

You should see the teeth of the belt missing alignment with the gear by half a tooth. Then rotate the cam gear clockwise the half a tooth to line up with the belt until it slides on. Then, before doing anything else, I would mark your up and your head level marks on the Y8 cam gear with a sharpie or white paint. You will notice the OEM up and head level marks on the cam gear aren't lining up so you will be making your own.

After that you know the rest with torquing the cam bolt, tensioning the belt etc etc etc.

Hopefully the half a tooth lets you dial in your ignition timing.

cityofcaterpillars

So if I'm using an adjustable gear can I line everything up to TDC, loosen the gear bolts and rotate the cam to 4.75* while that belt and gear stay in place? I've never messed with an adjustable gear so I'm not exactly sure how to make adjustments with them

TomCat39

No need for an adjustable unless you are going to tune the car and let the tuner play with mechanical timing.

You currently have the Z6 gear on. I am suggesting putting the Y8 gear on and turning the cam clockwise the half tooth (4.75 degrees) to see where your ignition timing lands.

I also am suggesting you mark your TDC marks on the Y8 cam gear once you have it on as the factory marks probably won't line up properly.

cityofcaterpillars

I put the adjustable on last night. I'd rather use that than switch the gears again. That's why I was asking about doing it that way.

TomCat39

Did you align it first to your D16Z6 gear then retard it 4.75 degrees?

Is the adjustable one for a Z6 or Y8?

cityofcaterpillars

It is a z6 gear and yes I lined it up. I didn't retard it yet because a friend is borrowing my timing g light til tomorrow