snookums

Hey guys, so I just bought a 1997 civic lx 1.6 from a guy at work. It has 230k miles but he has no idea when the timing belt was changed last. Being that its an interference engine, and having no idea sounds entirely insane to me, I wanted to change the timing belt today.

My issue is that the only place I know that sells a crank bolt for the crank pulley is a Honda dealership. Do any of you guys know any other parts stores I might be able to find one on a sunday? I know some people have used loctite red or blue on reused bolts, but even so, the threads are one time use only so I don't think that's a good idea.

jbpnoman

ARP sells a replacement bolt, and a number of companies carry ARP, but you'll probably have to wait for shipping. If you absolutely want it today, it's time for you to start driving around and see if anyone can help you.

snookums

thanks jbpnoman.. I will have to drive around I guess.. I'm starting to wonder if mechanic shops have a stock of crank bolts for every make just lying around or if they are all just using loctite on old bolts every time.

94EG8

No one ever replaces crank bolts in the real world unless you're at a dealership (even then most of the time the old bolt gets reused) I don't even put Loctite on them.

strategy400

I've reused the old bolt with no loctite with no issues. Just torque to spec. Ideally replace it though its < $5.

B_Swapped93

kyden

I've always reused the bolt, no Loctite. The manual doesn't say to replace the bolt. It just says to apply engine oil to the threads.

snookums

I went ahead and bought another bolt the other day since I found out I have a week off work. It was actually 10 dollars at the dealership.

I couldn't believe how loose the timing belt was before I changed it. I'm assuming the last guy didn't know what he was doing because there was no play in the tensioner bearing and it was bolted tighter than the torque spec the manual says it should be.

94EG8

It will be fairly loose in certain places.

There's not supposed to be any play in the bearing.

Other than rod and head bolts no one torques anything in the real world. The biggest thing with the tensioner bolt is that it's tight, you don't want the tensioner to move. If it's a bit tighter than the torque spec it wont matter unless it's so tight you strip the hole or break the bolt.

snookums

Yea I was excessively loose.. I couldn't believe it hadn't jumped a tooth. I was saying if there was tensioner bearing play, It would explain the looseness if it weren't the mechanic working on it.

I'm all for saving time when I'm working on a car, but to me it doesn't make sense not to torque bolts and nuts correctly if i have a torque wrench beside me and the torque specs are staring me right in the face on a diagram. The only time I don't torque bolts to spec is if its pretty impossible to get that size ratchet in there.

94EG8

You can't make any money on flat rate with a torque wrench. A job only pays book time so if it takes you longer you're working for nothing after the allotted time, if you finish in less time, bonus. The faster you work, the more money you make.

snookums

You do make a good point. I would probably do the same thing if I worked in a garage. In my situation in my driveway its a good thing I have time to do it I guess. I know if it paid more I would work as a mechanic but I'm too much of a perfectionist for it to be worthwhile for me haha

B_Swapped93

however driveway/home garage is a different story. i'll torque any internal engine component(so anything that's under the valve cover) and some suspension/brake components. but if I were at a shop no drought you'd be loosing out buy torqueing things like wheel studs and things along that nature.

strategy400

Above stated truths and reasons are exactly why I never let anyone work on my car short of a machine shop and always re-torque my wheel lugs the minute I get home after tire work. I also torque everything to spec that I can fit a torque wrench on. Never had anything strip, break or come loose.
Last time I re-torqued my lugs the shop had them so tight I almost couldn't break them loose. I'd have been pissed if this happened on the roadway.

strategy400

04133-P01-305 020 001 BOLT-WASHER (14X29) 10.97 7.68

My apologies for understating the crank bolt cost. Curse my feeble aging brain.

strategy400

You won't make money with stripped/broken parts or parts falling off the cars. I guess that's where the grunt wrench comes into play (torque to 3 grunts). Sadly what you say is true. Cleanliness is also sacrificed in most shops.

burnoutboy

iTrader: (22)

Most dealerships have torque sticks for their impacts too though. Using a torque stick is better than nothing and just as fast.


I usually chase the threads on the bolt and reuse once.

94EG8

You get a feel for it. You have to know how much is too much and how much is enough. I've been working in stuff (not necessarily Hondas) for a very long time and stripped or broken very little in that time. There are times you really need a torque wrench but for most things it's not needed.

Fwiw, when I worked at Honda we had some preset torque wrenches, one for oil filters, one for drain plugs and two for wheels. The way we used wheel torque wrenches was to crank the lugs nuts on with the impact gun and then check to make sure they were all at at least 80 - 90ft lbs. Usually one per wheel ended up being less. Don't let anyone try to convince you over-torquing wheel nuts leads to warped rotors, it doesn't.

burnoutboy

iTrader: (22)

Yeah but would you go as far as to say UNEQUALLY over torqueing wont?

i.e.83,89,85,104

jbpnoman

Hate to break it to ya, but torque sticks are good for only one thing - breaking customer's ****. I've never seen a reputable dealership or speed shop use one. Only "tire shops" and quickie lube places use them.

94EG8

Yes I would. You're sandwiching an 1/8th to 1/4 inch piece of metal between the wheel and a solid hub, it just can't warp that way.

Torque sticks are torque limiting, that's about it. You never really have any idea what you have for torque, especially on alloy wheels. The only way they're any good is to use a torque stick and then run around behind with a torque wrench.

jbpnoman

Yep, and they aren't static, either. Once they've been used in a shop for a while, they won't limit to the same torque they did new. The average tire jockey doesn't know this, and even if you told them, they wouldn't care. Add in the fact that every torque stick I've ever seen doesn't have it's value actually written on it, and you'll have tire jockeys who grab the wrong one, and use a 100ft/lbs stick when they should use a 70, then they want to bill the customer for a replacement stud and install, or (even worse) it weakens the studs, and one or more will just randomly snap while the customer is driving down the road. Or they go the other way around, and the lugs aren't tight enough. Tire shops and quickie lube shops are all about volume - they don't follow a torque stick with a proper torque wrench.

Pretty sure I'm preaching to the choir here, though

burnoutboy

iTrader: (22)

Yeah my Snap on set says "precise readings" but doesn't show tolerances. I've always trusted them so I went just now did a BUNCH of research and they're supposedly +/-2%.



The Matco ones I have are supposedly +/- 4%.


Either way I'll take that over the random guess method EVERYTIME!

Matco and Snap On both clearly show the Torque rating and BOTH will warranty WHEN they wear out. that said I'm a backyard mechanic and mine get used maybe 20 times a year. I'm not counting on them springing out anytime soon LOL.




As for reputable dealerships not using them I got mine when my wife went from being a tech at Heritage Subaru/VW (one of the biggest Subaru VW dealerships by volume on the East Coast) to being a parts tech. Their techs use Matco exclusively and they ALL use em.

DumpdEJ6

I'll jump in with my $.02 worth...I've done a timing belt job on a honda probably around 15-20 times, I've never used loctite or replaced the bolt. I did have the pulley come off ONCE on my CRX, but I strongly suspect that I actually just forgot to tighten the pulley that time, lol.

fragmare

When I'm working on my own car at home or a friend or family member's car, I always torque bolts to spec... but I'm very thorough and picky about my Civic. If I were in a shop, on book time, I'd probably just torque until it felt right.

I will say that any bolts that need tightened in a sequence (head bolts, oil pan bolts, manifold bolts, etc.) should ALWAYS be torqued to spec. If you torque those out of sequence and unevenly, it's just asking for trouble (and by trouble, i mean leaks).

As for the crank pulley bolt, I've never replaced mine and it's on 311,000 miles. The FSM makes no mention of replacing it either. I think you just wasted $10 bucks. :/