pdiggitydogg

yeah, mine does 88mph at 1.21 jigawatts

Bense

blah blah blah blah

you have to figure what speed you're going to be trapping at, cause nobody wants to be shifting into 5th on the drag strip.

i think, and have always thought that if one is going to boost, then the 2.105 b16/itr 2nd gear is too short and will just induce wheelspin with too much tq being put to the ground.

if it were me, i would have a gsr/ls mainshaft, with a b16 3rd and 4th cause of the lower RPM drops from 2nd > 3rd and 3rd > 4th.

along with a 4.4 final drive.

what size slicks are you going to be running?

i just built and installed a crazy *** d-series transmission for my 94 hatch today. It's great fun!

Eg6xCiViCxSi

i have the jdm gsr tranny with lsd and i love it IMO its gsr with lsd you get best of both worlds of b16 or ls its just right there in the middle so gsr imo

hott95ej2

j/k on last post. it all depends on your setup and what your going for, tuning is most important in what kind of racing you plan on doing, hell I saw someone put an hf tranny on a mini-me turbo, 120 in 2nd gear

Bense

b16/usdm itr gearing. 8200rpm redline, 205/50/15s

1st ends at 40mph
2nd ends at 61mph
3rd ends at 88mph
4th ends at 116mph
5th ends at 151

rpms drop to:
1st -> 2nd ~= 5400
2nd -> 3rd ~= 5700
3rd -> 4th ~= 6250
4th -> 5th ~= 6300

########################
GSR Tranny
1st ends at 40mph
2nd ends at 67mph
3rd ends at 94mph
4th ends at 124mph
5th ends at 163mph

RPM Drops
1st -> 2nd ~= 4900
2nd -> 3rd ~= 5800
3rd -> 4th ~= 6200
4th -> 5th ~= 6250


notice how the gsr gears are further apart, hence the greater RPM drops.

######################

two hybrid trannys. LSDs have nothing to do with gearing, jdm itr = 4.785 with usdm itr/b16 1st, 2nd, 3rd. GSR 4th and 5th.

JDM ITR (b16/itr tranny with gsr 4th and 5th, 4.4 final drive
1st ends at 40mph
2nd ends at 61mph
3rd ends at 88mph
4th ends at 124mph
5th ends at 163mph

rpms drop to:
1st -> 2nd ~= 5400
2nd -> 3rd ~= 5700
3rd -> 4th ~= 5850
4th -> 5th ~= 6250

##################################

now the same tranny with a 4.785 final drive
1st ends at 36mph
2nd ends at 56mph
3rd ends at 81mph
4th ends at 114mph
5th ends at 149mph

rpms drop to:
1st -> 2nd ~= 5400
2nd -> 3rd ~= 5700
3rd -> 4th ~= 5850
4th -> 5th ~= 6250

notice that even with the changed final drive, rpm drops are STILL THE SAME. Final drives effect the mph between the gears, and NOT the RPMs between the gears.

###############################

my idea for a good hybrid transmission is this
gsr 1st and 2nd (gsr or ls mainshaft)
b16 3rd and 4th
whatever 5th, cause you prob won't be getting over 116mph. if you are, just stick with a gsr tranny
along with a 4.4 final drive

1st ends at 40mph
2nd ends at 67mph
3rd ends at 88mph
4th ends at 116mph
5th ends at 163mph (gsr 5th for cruising, cause most people complain about b16 5th gear being too short

rpm drops
1st -> 2nd ~= 4900
2nd -> 3rd ~= 6300
3rd -> 4th ~= 6250
4th -> 5th ~= 5850

notice that my idea has a taller 2nd gear cause traction is usually an issue in 2nd anyways
taller 2nd carries you further into a shorter 3rd, meaning rpms drop less from 2nd -> 3rd shift
b16 3rd and 4th are really close together the way they are.

if you wanna use 24" slicks, multiply mph by 1.04
if you wanna use 24.5" slicks multiply mph by 1.06
if you wanna use 25" slicks multiply mph by 1.083

b16 4th with 24" slicks = 120mph
b16 4th with 24.5" slicks = 122mph
b16 4th with 25" slicks = 125mph

nekoabandoned

iTrader: (-1)

blah blah blah just go with the ls tranny its got long gears and thats what you want for a turbo setup .the longer the gears the longer the turbo is spooled(go faster) truth is that i didnt read the whole post but a have had lots of tranny setups and the ls had the best runs

PhatBoy5015

Thats what I'm talking about! Somebody who has actually used each and knows from experience.

Bense

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nekoabandoned &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">blah blah blah just go with the ls tranny its got long gears and thats what you want for a turbo setup .the longer the gears the longer the turbo is spooled(go faster) truth is that i didnt read the whole post but a have had lots of tranny setups and the ls had the best runs </TD></TR></TABLE>

i am going to have to disagree with you. shorter gears means more torque being put to the ground.

take the gsr 2nd of 1.9 and compare it to the b16 2.105 both have the same final drive now lets pair it up to a motor that happens to put out 160hp (for mathematical purposes.)

160hp * 1.9 * 4.4 = 1337.6
160hp * 2.105 * 4.4 = 1481.92

it's called torque multipication, using gears to do the work for you. If you want to put less power to the wheels, you can either produce less hp, or use longer gears.

either way you're combatting two things, traction, and not having to shift into 5th.

plus lets not also forget that the ls has gears that are furthest apart. I don't feel like doing the math, but this transmission was designed for a motor that had a lower redline. which means greater rpm drops. and since [i]we all[/b] know the formula for horsepower, we all realize the importance of staying in those high rpms. not to mention the fact that most of guys with LS trannys are going to be using larger turbos which take even longer to spool up, why drop out of full boost between shifts?

nekoabandoned

iTrader: (-1)

if ur going n/a sure shorter gears are great but going turbo is all about how long ur in those gears

tangerinebeast

im going with bense set up best research ive always heard about the longer gears stuff but never looked at the information but i can see how shorter gears have less of a drop off which means that if you are running a big a/r turbo that means you wont drop out of boost but i like the gsr/ls 1st 2nd and b16 3rd 4th and ls 5th for low high way rpm or if the hance comes up to hit a closed road and top it out but nothing with peeps around

good research bense

Bense

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tangerinebeast &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im going with bense set up best research ive always heard about the longer gears stuff but never looked at the information but i can see how shorter gears have less of a drop off which means that if you are running a big a/r turbo that means you wont drop out of boost but i like the gsr/ls 1st 2nd and b16 3rd 4th and ls 5th for low high way rpm or if the hance comes up to hit a closed road and top it out but nothing with peeps around

good research bense </TD></TR></TABLE>




OOOOOH PAGE 3 PWNAGE

PhatBoy5015

But if wide gears aren't better for turbo cars, why do most factory turbo cars have wide gears? Because a turbo car works a lot different than N/A cars. For example, in most turbo cars, when you are in 4th gear at around 6000 rpm the car pulls pretty good. But when you shift up to 5th gear, the cars pulls a lot harder and accelerates a lot faster than it would if you kept it in 4th and wound it up to redline. Because when you shift up, it puts more of a load on the engine, which causes stronger exhaust flow, which spools the turbo, which makes the car faster! A turbo car is not all about keeping the rpm's up.

Bense

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PhatBoy5015 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">But if wide gears aren't better for turbo cars, why do most factory turbo cars have wide gears? Because a turbo car works a lot different than N/A cars. For example, in most turbo cars, when you are in 4th gear at around 6000 rpm the car pulls pretty good. But when you shift up to 5th gear, the cars pulls a lot harder and accelerates a lot faster than it would if you kept it in 4th and wound it up to redline. Because when you shift up, it puts more of a load on the engine, which causes stronger exhaust flow, which spools the turbo, which makes the car faster! A turbo car is not all about keeping the rpm's up.</TD></TR></TABLE>

that's cause most factory turbo cars don't redline at 8000. And most factory turbo cars run small turbos so they have little to no turbo lag.

my friends Mazda Speed protege uses very short gears

pdiggitydogg

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nekoabandoned &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if ur going n/a sure shorter gears are great but going turbo is all about how long ur in those gears </TD></TR></TABLE>

No, thats wrong...
How many pages is this going to go on? Shorter gearing = Faster accelleration. Period, end of story.
(ok, yes, to a point...but none of us are going to go fast enough to need long-*** gearing)

Good ol' Screwtape

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pdiggitydogg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Shorter gearing = Faster accelleration.</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is true. Unless the shorter gears just overload the traction capabilities of the car.

PhatBoy5015

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bense &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">that's cause most factory turbo cars don't redline at 8000. And most factory turbo cars run small turbos so they have little to no turbo lag.</TD></TR></TABLE>
but most redline at least 7000. and most factory turbos don't spool up till about 3000-3500 rpm. So all factory turbos still have quite a bit of lag and MOST turbo cars have long gears for a reason. And shorter gears does not always equal faster acceleration. Turbo cars are completely different than NA cars. If any of you have ever ridden in a turbo DSM car or a turbo Z car, you know that shorter gearing does not help a turbo car.

Bense

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PhatBoy5015 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">but most redline at least 7000. and most factory turbos don't spool up till about 3000-3500 rpm. So all factory turbos still have quite a bit of lag and MOST turbo cars have long gears for a reason. And shorter gears does not always equal faster acceleration. Turbo cars are completely different than NA cars. If any of you have ever ridden in a turbo DSM car or a turbo Z car, you know that shorter gearing does not help a turbo car.</TD></TR></TABLE>

you're basing your reasoning on what other people are doing.

where as i'm basing my reasoning on the physics of racing.

you decide which is more valuable to you.

pdiggitydogg

no, turbo and n/a cars are not completely different
Its still a giant air pump, it still has gearing, it still has its velocity based on its gearing that must adhere to the laws of mathematics and physics.
So yes, faster gearing is always faster acceleration.

You seem like the type of person who thinks that longer gearing is better because you sit in boost longer...
Stop trying to apply general ideas that you only think apply to the situation.

PhatBoy5015

for highway racing, longer gears are better because it puts a load on the engine which spools the turbo faster. in a turbo car, you don't always need to be in the high rpm range.

pdiggitydogg

That isnt a very correct statement either. Seems that youre just pulling random crap from other sources that also dont fully understand what theyre talking about. Do you know how a turbo even works, other than it compresses air??

And hghway racing? I hope you get into an accident and lose the use of your legs.

Bense

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PhatBoy5015 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">for highway racing, longer gears are better because it puts a load on the engine which spools the turbo faster. in a turbo car, you don't always need to be in the high rpm range.</TD></TR></TABLE>

omg dude, seriously. I don't like doing this, but it looks like i'm going to have to. I have spent more time studying and researching this than you can possibly imagine, I am providing you a shortcut and giving you the answers to your questions (that i have already researched) I am 100% positive that i am correct, solely because I have read it, and I have used mathematical formulas to prove me correct.

If you want to be faster, listen to me. If you don't, people that do what i'm telling them to do will be faster. It's not like I am the only person that knows this ****, it's just i'm the only person that's going to lay out the facts as clearly as i did. If you still don't wanna believe me, or just about anyone else that's experienced. Then the bottom line is that YOU WILL BE SLOWER!

white92eg9

b16

PhatBoy5015

Most turbo cars rely on the turbo for their speed because the have low compression. The only turbo car I've driven that was torquey before it boosted was an WRX STi. So on a turbo car, being in boost is always better. I KNOW THIS BECAUSE I HAVE DRIVEN TURBO CARS, NOT "RESEARCHED" ABOUT THEM. Stop trying to tell me I'm wrong because you have READ something different.

ooxzplayerzxoo123

ls is good for its long gears but in my opinion i would get a gsr because the gearing is perfect for the street and the track, the b16 or type r trans gears are too short and if you were doing pulls on the street youd be in 5th gear by the time someone else is still in 4th, ls trans will be ok if your boosting an ls motor but if your revving anywhere past 7 gsr is where to be

Bense

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PhatBoy5015 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Most turbo cars rely on the turbo for their speed because the have low compression. The only turbo car I've driven that was torquey before it boosted was an WRX STi. So on a turbo car, being in boost is always better. I KNOW THIS BECAUSE I HAVE DRIVEN TURBO CARS, NOT "RESEARCHED" ABOUT THEM. Stop trying to tell me I'm wrong because you have READ something different.</TD></TR></TABLE>

bwahhaha, i have personally owned a fully built and turbo'd b18c1

what exactly is the redline on STi's?

What exactly is the redline on our b-series vtec motors?

I am officially stepping out of this thread, You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink